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layout: default
---
# 1997-05-14 - Re: The Inducement of Rapid Oxidation of Certain Materials in or Near Government Buildings
## Header Data
From: Paul Bradley \<paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk\><br>
To: Kent Crispin \<kent@songbird.com\><br>
Message Hash: 0044b6c729cfe71c686aed3cea49b1ab64af131dfb4365c6daabec6009eb9056<br>
Message ID: \<Pine.LNX.3.91.970514153240.1932B-100000@fatmans.demon.co.uk\><br>
Reply To: \<19970513225047.26856@bywater.songbird.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-14 19:15:03 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 03:15:03 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Paul Bradley <paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 03:15:03 +0800
To: Kent Crispin <kent@songbird.com>
Subject: Re: The Inducement of Rapid Oxidation of Certain Materials in or Near Government Buildings
In-Reply-To: <19970513225047.26856@bywater.songbird.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.970514153240.1932B-100000@fatmans.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
> > Your position is laughable. Statistics on murder rates are knowable for
> > many countries. Studying the murder rate for those countries will at least
> > provide a range against which deaths due to government-caused wars can be
> > compared.
>
> Only meaningful if you can compare with murder rates in a human
> society without a government...but of course, in fact the only time
> this happens is when society breaks down entirely.
This is all away from the main point, I have a large dislike of arguments
which rest entirely on practical grounds, anarchic societies may be more
violent, this does not offer any reason why they should not be the
correct type of societies from an idealogical and moral point of view.
> And I am fascinated with the way you make the "government" into a
> bogeyman that is responsible for all the evils that beset the human
> race. No consideration of other factors -- racial and tribal hatred,
> religious conflicts, class conflicts, etc etc. A wonderful
> simplification.
This argument does have certain substance but it does have flaws:
Firstly, all religion which has caused conflict in the past has been one
which wielded power in a governmental fashion. I`m no historian, but I
cannot recall one incident where a religion which had no executive power
caused violence against other groups of people for religious, or indeed
any other reason.
For example, the catholic church in the middle ages had a massive amount
of power and used it to eliminate elements of society which threatened
it`s position, it acted effectively as a government, which is, after all,
merely a set of people who adhere to a rough set of beliefs and commonly
held principals, the root of government is in religion, they are two
sides of the same coin.
Racial and tribal hatred is a more convincing argument but is still
rooted in religion, a lot of the violent overthrowings of governments
around the world have resulted from that government taking a racist
position, most anti-government protests and indeed even riots in the
western world are caused by racism or opposition to it.
Class conflicts can be similarly dismissed as another facet of
government, where the government favours one group of citizens over
another in terms of the way in which it governs the anger of the
repressed or badly treated group of people is often directed towards
those in a better position than them rather than at the government which
caused their position to become as bad as it did. This is merely the
jealous nature of humans overcoming their logical side.
Beyond all of this, the argument isn`t really very interesting, I`m not
interested whether the government murders and kills or not, any
infringement of the rights of citizens is sufficient in my mind to make
them criminal, and necessitate their removal from power, murder is merely
an extreme form of this.
> > >Second, such cases of civil breakdown aside, all humans, for now and
> > >for the conceivable future, live within the context of some kind of
> > >government. The option of non-government simply doesn't exist.
> >
> > That's precisely what the governments and their agents want us to believe.
> > Minarchism is certainly possible,
>
> Oh boy. A wonderful dream, minarchism, that everybody *must* secretly
> want, except that some evil force is preventing them from getting to
> it, and you, Jim Bell, are the savior that is going to bring it
> about. A classic messiah complex.
I saw nothing in the comment that suggested Jim believed he would bring
about minarchist government, minarchism is a definite possibility within
our current society, because it is based on the concept of democracy
which is accepted by most participants in society and furthermore it has
been proven to work in the past, the initial stages of the US government
when the government adhered to the principles of the constitution could
be called minarchist, you might say that the fact that the government has
now increased in size and power suggests minarchism did not work, I would
argue this was merely the fact that the governments power has, until
recently, been increasing slowly, people take little notice of small
infringements of their rights, the government know they can safely upset
a few thousand people at a time without problems, then go on to offend
the next few thousand once things have cooled down somewhat, at each
stage of course the objection is small enough to be insignificant, the
end result is the government can increase its power virtually without bounds.
Now most of the peons accept the "need" for larger and more powerful
government the pace of change has accelerated, the government has begun
to use force more and more often to crush opposition to its actions.
The terror state is on its way.
> > >Third, murders caused by governments can't really be separated from
> > >murders caused by individuals. That is, in many cases deciding
> > >whether a murder is a personal action or a government action is
> > >impossible.
> >
> > "Aye vas joost vollowink orderz!"
> >
> > Sorry, we're still laughing at you.
>
> When the LA cops beat up Rodney King, do you suppose they got any
> personal satisfaction out of it? Or were they just cold government
> functionaries, doing their job?
I would say part of each, they knew however that their position as
government thugs protected them to a certain extent from retribution,
has they been living in a minarchist society where their actions would
have been punished harshly they may not have acted as they did.
> > >Fourth, it's fashionable in these circles to paint all governments
> > >with the same brush, but in fact, some are much better than others.
> > >But it only takes one bad one to start a war. Furthermore, human
> > >motivations are complex and irrational, so wars are started for
> > >essentially insane reasons. This is a human problem, not a problem
> > >of government.
> >
> > No, quite the contrary. Considered from the perspective of the cumulative
> > interests of society, wars are not beneficial or "profitable." Only from
> > the very limited viewpoint of the military-industrial complex and government
> > employees does war appear to be a net benefit, and that's true only because
> > the interests of most of the population (on whom the effect of war is a net
> > negative) is ignored. The reason war occurs is that the decision to have a
> > war is made not by society as a whole, but by that tiny fraction which profits.
>
> So of course ideology could never start a war -- Arabs and Jews *only*
> fight because of their governments, the American revolutionary war
> was *only* fought because the state governments wanted more power,
> the Tutsi's and the Hutus only fought because their governments
> forced them. A wonderful simplification, blaming everything on
> "government".
This is not really an over simplification given my argument above,
I believe most groupings in society can be reduced to some form of
government or another, whether it is of your accepted narrow definition
of government or in a wider sense.
> > Put the decision to have the war back into the hands of the population as a
> > whole, and war will decrease. Give the public the option to make war upon
> > the government parasites infesting their own land, and war will end
> > forever.
>
> A wonderful dream, truly.
Not a dream, a past reality, and indeed, in certain regions where
government intervention is more extreme than it is in the USA or UK a
present reality. The only reason for war is government, this is simple to
see if one defines government as I have above. I do not believe this to
be an overgeneralisation, merely a statement of fact, government is any
form of custom or structure which forces certain courses of action on
people. Of course there are exceptions, such as the NAP, which is a form
of government under my analagy, which I do not believe could concievably
be called an initiation of force because of its very limited scope.
Datacomms Technologies data security
Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk
Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org
Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/
Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85
"Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-14 (Wed, 14 May 1997 13:11:13 +0800) - [Re: The Inducement of Rapid Oxidation of Certain Materials in or Near Government Buildings](/archive/1997/05/7574cecfd87808e7765d3dd089f72247e3f1cf8a33c7a72e708d56a945545be6) - _jimbell@pacifier.com (Jim Bell)_
+ 1997-05-14 (Wed, 14 May 1997 14:13:26 +0800) - [Re: The Inducement of Rapid Oxidation of Certain Materials in or Near Government Buildings](/archive/1997/05/bc6752d4ad94966c132e1faefa0c9921c2d44fd3dbb59a44568ebd05efa0e6cc) - _Kent Crispin \<kent@songbird.com\>_
+ 1997-05-14 (Thu, 15 May 1997 03:15:03 +0800) - Re: The Inducement of Rapid Oxidation of Certain Materials in or Near Government Buildings - _Paul Bradley \<paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk\>_

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layout: default
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# 1997-05-01 - Re: Bombs Away, from The Netly News Network
## Header Data
From: Jeff Barber \<jeffb@issl.atl.hp.com\><br>
To: declan@well.com<br>
Message Hash: 0071d9ef350e9052508386e4c51828fe6c5ffb7ca95c30f95110f4b2da9b7633<br>
Message ID: \<199705011950.PAA24272@jafar.issl.atl.hp.com\><br>
Reply To: \<v03007804af8e6d02687c@[168.161.105.191]\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-01 20:09:55 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 04:09:55 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Jeff Barber <jeffb@issl.atl.hp.com>
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 04:09:55 +0800
To: declan@well.com
Subject: Re: Bombs Away, from The Netly News Network
In-Reply-To: <v03007804af8e6d02687c@[168.161.105.191]>
Message-ID: <199705011950.PAA24272@jafar.issl.atl.hp.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Declan McCullagh writes:
> "A
> member of the DoJ committee accessed a single web site
> on the World Wide Web and obtained the titles of 110
> different bomb-making texts."
I wonder if this was a bookstore. I did a search for "explosives"
on amazon.com and came up with at least that many titles. Only a
handful were of the Anarchist's Cookbook ilk. Most were academic or
industrial studies; a few were from US Govt or Govt-affiliated
organizations.
-- Jeff
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-01 (Fri, 2 May 1997 00:22:47 +0800) - [Bombs Away, from The Netly News Network](/archive/1997/05/4677d6440d710bb1919cb460e0e71e252033a0c1e1e6193e3f76cbdf7955d453) - _Declan McCullagh \<declan@well.com\>_
+ 1997-05-01 (Fri, 2 May 1997 04:09:55 +0800) - Re: Bombs Away, from The Netly News Network - _Jeff Barber \<jeffb@issl.atl.hp.com\>_
+ 1997-05-01 (Fri, 2 May 1997 07:07:22 +0800) - [Re: Bombs Away, from The Netly News Network](/archive/1997/05/87830364492a885df6e70d47d8da001bfe15a9f32d44ec0e397a56241f9281b3) - _"William H. Geiger III" \<whgiii@amaranth.com\>_

280
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layout: default
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# 1997-05-05 - Fast Cheap Unreviewed Stream Cipher
## Header Data
From: Bill Frantz \<frantz@communities.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 00741afc3f4cc94eeea539dd8e79112ce1c6d83a568fff881a5762aa59c70c6b<br>
Message ID: \<3.0.32.19970505095357.006e9248@homer.communities.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-05 17:24:04 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 01:24:04 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Bill Frantz <frantz@communities.com>
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 01:24:04 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Fast Cheap Unreviewed Stream Cipher
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970505095357.006e9248@homer.communities.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
I received this code from another friend.
Here's a FAST somewhat cryptographically secure pseudo-random generator
written by a friend of mine that wishes to remain anonymous. He has given
permission for the following code to be placed in the public domain, and to
be sent to cypherpunks and others for review. Alas, I have never gotten
around to doing so. As it states, on a PowerPC it'll produce bits fast
enough to be a pseudo-one-time pad / stream cipher for good digitized video
on a LAN (the purpose for which he originally sent it to me) and hence
should do point-to-point audio without even breathing hard.
For those who haven't heard, the scenario is for point-to-point audio to
use an affordable (weak) stream cipher, but to be changing keys frequently
using our strongly secure SSL channel. Each costly break would only
compromise a few seconds or so of audio. The following code may serve as
the affordable (but maybe better than weak) stream cipher.
/******************************************************/
/** (c) 1823 Millard Fillmore, all rights expired **/
/** Full words of pseudorandom bits at video speed **/
/******************************************************/
#include <stdlib.h>
#include <stdio.h>
#include <time.h>
#include <sioux.h>
#define WORD_SIZE 32
unsigned long shiftRand();
static void refillShiftRand();
void seedShiftRand(unsigned long seed);
static unsigned long shiftRandArray[31] = { }; // to hold
internal state values
static unsigned long * arrayPtr = shiftRandArray; // incremented as
state values are consumed
static unsigned long * const end = shiftRandArray + 31; // marks end (and
need to refill array)
// Initializes shiftRandArray to pseudorandom contents using a seed value
and the system rand function,
// which is assumed to produce 16 bits per call. Low rand bits are obscured
by xoring with high bits from other
// calls, and all product bits depend on two or more calls to rand. The
resulting values are themselves obscured,
// not simply revealed at the output, hence this is probably overkill. The
seed acts as a key.
void seedShiftRand(unsigned long seed) {
srand(seed);
long cyclesPerWord = ((WORD_SIZE + 7) >> 3) - 1; // will add a net
of 8 bits per call to rand
unsigned long * arrPtr = shiftRandArray;
for (; arrPtr < end; arrPtr++) {
unsigned long rand1 = rand(); // wrap this
value around word boundary:
unsigned long element = (rand1 >> 8) | (rand1 << (WORD_SIZE
- 8));
for (long i = 0; i < cyclesPerWord; i++) {
element ^= rand() << (8 * i); //previous
8 high bits obscure 8 new low bits
}
*arrPtr = element;
}
}
// Low-order bits in the following act as an xor-based linear feedback
shift register (with moving taps
// and stationary data); the repeat period equals (1 << 31) - 1.
Higher-order bits have similar
// "intrinsic" behavior, but the state of each is determined by additional
xoring with a sequence
// of carry bits from below, causing repeated period-doubling across the
width of the word.
//
// The choice of 31 and 13 corresponds to a primitive polynomial mod 2;
Applied Cryptography has
// typos in polynomial coefficients, but the repeat period was tested
directly. This code avoids a
// shift-direction mistake in Applied Cryptography, and hence follows
Numerical Recipes.
//
static void refillShiftRand() {
unsigned long * tap0 = shiftRandArray + 0;
unsigned long * tap13 = shiftRandArray + 13;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13 = shiftRandArray;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13; tap0++; tap13++;
*tap0 = *tap0 + *tap13;
return;
}
// sum at 10 million iterations = 1344076334
/*
// Slightly faster than the above on a 604, provided CodeWarrior's
instruction-scheduling "optimization" is OFF.
static void refillShiftRand() {
unsigned long * tap0a = shiftRandArray + 0;
unsigned long * tap0b = shiftRandArray + 1; // uses more registers
unsigned long * tap13a = shiftRandArray + 13;
unsigned long * tap13b = shiftRandArray + 14;
*tap0a = *tap0a + *tap13a; tap0a += 2; tap13a += 2;
*tap0b = *tap0b + *tap13b; tap0b += 2; tap13b += 2;
*tap0a = *tap0a + *tap13a; tap0a += 2; tap13a += 2;
*tap0b = *tap0b + *tap13b; tap0b += 2; tap13b += 2;
*tap0a = *tap0a + *tap13a; tap0a += 2; tap13a += 2;
*tap0b = *tap0b + *tap13b; tap0b += 2; tap13b += 2;
*tap0a = *tap0a + *tap13a; tap0a += 2; tap13a += 2;
*tap0b = *tap0b + *tap13b; tap0b += 2; tap13b += 2;
*tap0a = *tap0a + *tap13a; tap0a += 2; tap13a += 2;
*tap0b = *tap0b + *tap13b; tap0b += 2; tap13b += 2;
*tap0a = *tap0a + *tap13a; tap0a += 2; tap13a += 2;
*tap0b = *tap0b + *tap13b; tap0b += 2; tap13b += 2;
*tap0a = *tap0a + *tap13a; tap0a += 2; tap13a += 2;
*tap0b = *tap0b + *tap13b; tap0b += 2; tap13b += 2;
*tap0a = *tap0a + *tap13a; tap0a += 2; tap13a += 2;
*tap0b = *tap0b + *tap13b; tap0b += 2; tap13b += 2;
*tap0a = *tap0a + *tap13a; tap0a += 2; tap13a = shiftRandArray;
*tap0b = *tap0b + *tap13b; tap0b += 2; tap13b = (shiftRandArray +
1);
*tap0a = *tap0a + *tap13a; tap0a += 2; tap13a += 2;
*tap0b = *tap0b + *tap13b; tap0b += 2; tap13b += 2;
*tap0a = *tap0a + *tap13a; tap0a += 2; tap13a += 2;
*tap0b = *tap0b + *tap13b; tap0b += 2; tap13b += 2;
*tap0a = *tap0a + *tap13a; tap0a += 2; tap13a += 2;
*tap0b = *tap0b + *tap13b; tap0b += 2; tap13b += 2;
*tap0a = *tap0a + *tap13a; tap0a += 2; tap13a += 2;
*tap0b = *tap0b + *tap13b; tap0b += 2; tap13b += 2;
*tap0a = *tap0a + *tap13a; tap0a += 2; tap13a += 2;
*tap0b = *tap0b + *tap13b; tap0b += 2; tap13b += 2;
*tap0a = *tap0a + *tap13a; tap0a += 2; tap13a += 2;
*tap0b = *tap0b + *tap13b;
*tap0a = *tap0a + *tap13a;
return;
}
// sum at 10 million iterations = 1344076334
*/
// The array-filling mechanism above provides an information-conserving
mechanism for producing
// pseudorandom numbers with an effectively unlimited repeat period, fast,
but based on a large number of
// internal state bits, and having a bit of a given order eventually depend
on all bits of the same or
// lower order in all words in the array.
// Rare, transient states having almost all zeros in the low bits will
show strong correlations,
// since the restoration of normal bit statistics will take several cycles.
(The all-zero state
// is inaccessible unless it is the starting condition -- one might test
for this.) Correlations
// in the frequency of low-order zero bits in sequentially generated array
elements are eliminated
// in the output by xoring high bits with the low bits; adding a preceding
squaring operation
// adds the effect of making any given output consistent with a large
number of array element states,
// making inferences regarding the internal state of the system relatively
difficult.
inline unsigned long shiftRand() {
((arrayPtr == end) ? // '?:' instead of 'if' to
enable inlining by CW compiler
(refillShiftRand(),
arrayPtr = shiftRandArray,
0) : 0);
unsigned long output = *arrayPtr++;
unsigned long square = output * output; // this multiplication
seems free on a 605
return(square + (output >> (WORD_SIZE / 2)));
}
// With multiplication (above) and summing of output to prevent bogus
optimizations, 16.5 clocks per word.
// Test code for CodeWarrier environment.
void main () {
SIOUXSettings.asktosaveonclose = FALSE;
unsigned long sum = 0;
seedShiftRand(12345); // easily guessed seed
long start = clock();
for (long i = 0; i < 2000000; i++) {
sum += shiftRand();
sum += shiftRand();
sum += shiftRand();
sum += shiftRand();
sum += shiftRand();
}
unsigned long end = clock();
printf("\n sum = %u", sum);
printf("\n\n time = %d \n", (int)(1000.0 * ((float)(end - start) /
(float)CLOCKS_PER_SEC)));
}
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-05 (Tue, 6 May 1997 01:24:04 +0800) - Fast Cheap Unreviewed Stream Cipher - _Bill Frantz \<frantz@communities.com\>_

60
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-13 - Re: War & InfoWar
## Header Data
From: Blanc \<blancw@cnw.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 00a440215dd360de9331564d423222245229d5c5343f8cf96fb2e80fdddf828d<br>
Message ID: \<3.0.32.19970512214932.006d4e8c@cnw.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-13 04:58:31 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 12:58:31 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Blanc <blancw@cnw.com>
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 12:58:31 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: War & InfoWar
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970512214932.006d4e8c@cnw.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Robert Hettinga wrote:
>Ah. A 90's version of Freddy Hayek's "Road to Serfdom", maybe?
>A turn-of-the-new-century Phabian Society needs a Stalin to make it's
>dreams reality?
>
>Be careful what you wish for, ladies and germs...
.............................................................
Well, now, what exactly do you mean? How does this relate to bombing a
village, with all its communists & captives, out of existence?
..
Blanc
..
Blanc
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-13 (Tue, 13 May 1997 12:58:31 +0800) - Re: War & InfoWar - _Blanc \<blancw@cnw.com\>_
+ 1997-05-13 (Tue, 13 May 1997 23:03:49 +0800) - [e$: You get what you pay for](/archive/1997/05/e66ea31a31f88ba843b496470847210138f6d65515a28c530a91daf13372850e) - _Robert Hettinga \<rah@shipwright.com\>_

66
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# 1997-05-02 - Re: Privacy news: Oakland Cameras, Levi employee files, FileGate
## Header Data
From: Bill Stewart \<stewarts@ix.netcom.com\><br>
To: geeman \<NOSPAM-geeman@best.com\><br>
Message Hash: 00ed3a95745e2883bfb88c5d51efaa80e9d5659403cc5dc2bfce7a82b8947611<br>
Message ID: \<3.0.1.32.19970501203644.00652d30@popd.ix.netcom.com\><br>
Reply To: \<3.0.32.19691231160000.006ae0c4@best.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-02 04:25:42 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 12:25:42 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Bill Stewart <stewarts@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 12:25:42 +0800
To: geeman <NOSPAM-geeman@best.com>
Subject: Re: Privacy news: Oakland Cameras, Levi employee files, FileGate
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19691231160000.006ae0c4@best.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970501203644.00652d30@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 08:46 AM 5/1/97 -0700, you wrote:
>This is fine for red-light-running. I'm just worried about the day when
>the cameras have an effect on people's behavior with respect to
>what they say, whom they associate with,
>the clothes they wear, the thoughts they think...
>
>How do you hack a camera?
The traditional solution, which happened to a number of early
photo-radar cameras, involves a ski-mask and a baseball bat;
more subtle approaches rely on spray-paint, which does less
damage to the expensive equipment, but spray paint is a Controlled Substance
in many cities....
Other approaches, for the video-surveillance types of cameras,
are to always use appropriate gestures when you're near the things.
# Thanks; Bill
# Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts@ix.netcom.com
# You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp
# (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-01 (Fri, 2 May 1997 00:12:38 +0800) - [Re: Privacy news: Oakland Cameras, Levi employee files, FileGate](/archive/1997/05/51e223c8bd87e34658e1ae10ea5f265ddb7f448f3183ca98406cb43cc25cd975) - _geeman \<NOSPAM-geeman@best.com\>_
+ 1997-05-02 (Fri, 2 May 1997 12:25:42 +0800) - Re: Privacy news: Oakland Cameras, Levi employee files, FileGate - _Bill Stewart \<stewarts@ix.netcom.com\>_

245
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# 1997-05-07 - (1048129di) Questions, Round Thirteen, The Dilbert Trivia Game
## Header Data
From: dogbert@yoyo.com<br>
To: cypherpunks@algebra.com<br>
Message Hash: 01051ffefc6cebf1f647ab63cd7f4b285f96fe76745c7619202f905663db8b25<br>
Message ID: \<9705071227.AB84040@cavalier.yoyo.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-07 12:58:53 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 20:58:53 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: dogbert@yoyo.com
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 20:58:53 +0800
To: cypherpunks@algebra.com
Subject: (1048129di) Questions, Round Thirteen, The Dilbert Trivia Game
Message-ID: <9705071227.AB84040@cavalier.yoyo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
* * * * * * Consultants Wanted * * * * * * *
We want to fill up as many binders with as
much information as possible, so we're asking
Dilbert Trivia Game players to do the Yoyodyne
Survey. What's in it for you? Prizes. We'll be
randomly awarding stuff to people who do this:
http://www.yoyo.com/dilbert/survey.html
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
This memo is to announce that Round Thirteen of The Dilbert
Trivia Game has now been implemented. Please file this memo
in the appropriate binder, in triplicate. The distribution
of cool, official Dilbert prizes is at stake here.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a Way Out?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you'd rather write your own performance review than keep
playing this game, please visit Yoyodyne's new Customer
Service Center at http://www.yoyo.com/service, where your
request can be fulfilled automatically. Want to quit all
Yoyodyne games? The Customer Service Center can do that too.
Just like that.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This Week's Questions
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Question One
~~~~~~~~~~~~
In a meeting with the boss, as captured forever in the pages
of "Dogbert's Top-Secret Management Handbook" ("DTSMH"),
Dilbert is told to add a sentence to his report saying that
micro-robotics is a dead-end technology. When he answers
that the statement would make the whole report a confusing
and senseless waste of time, the boss says:
A -- That's okay. We just won't let anybody else see it.
B -- That's part of our strategy.
C -- And your point is what?
Question Two
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Discussing the quality assurance process with Ratbert (as
transcribed in a strip in "DTSMH"), the boss accuses him of
finding a huge number of flaws in the prototype,
jeopardizing the schedule. The possible results, according
to the boss, are:
A -- Mass layoffs will result.
B -- The entire project will fail and it's all your fault.
C -- This could be the end of civilization as we know it.
Question Three
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Waxing rhapsodic over the advantages of using temporary
workers (as noted in a strip in "DTSMH"), the boss says:
A -- I just love hiring these temporary workers.
B -- No employee benefits...no union...just throw 'em in
the Dumpster when you're done with 'em.
C -- Both A and B.
Question Four
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Asking the boss to delay the beta trial of a product until
it stops exploding, Dilbert is met with resistance, as
evidenced by this strip in "DTSMH":
A -- You engineers are such pessimists. Just once, try to
focus on the positive aspects of the trial.
B -- Is that a bad thing?
C -- Could we call that a feature?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Productivity Tip
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dogbert absolutely, positively must receive your answers at
dogbert@yoyo.com before the deadline of 5/11/97 11:00:00 PM
Eastern Time or you'll be replaced by a consultant. So give
yourself enough time for the mail to get here.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Incentive Plan Update
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Every correct answer earns you an entry into the weekly,
quarterly, and annual prize drawings. And even wrong answers
count toward the drawing for the annual attendance prize.
(No sick days or vacation days if you want to win that one.)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How to Answer the Questions
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
First off, your player ID -- the letters and numbers in
parentheses on the Subject line when you get your questions
-- has to be on that same old Subject line when you send
your answers. It looks like this example: (123456di)
Most mailers will set this up automatically when you use the
"Reply" button. If yours won't, then copy the Subject line
from the Question message and paste it into the Subject line
of your reply.
Next comes setting up your answers. Start by picking the
LETTER of the multiple-choice answer you like best. Say the
answer to a question is this:
A -- A coffee cup with a slogan is your answer to the
productivity crisis?
Your answer would be the letter A, preceded by a single pound
sign # -- like so: #A
One more thing: Each answer goes on its own line, please.
Thanks.
To review: Start by opening the original e-mail with the
questions, click the "Reply" button, type your answers in
the order in which they were asked, on separate lines, and
put one of these thingies # in front of each one.
There's more about the formatting stuff in the How
to Play document, which you can get by sending e-mail to
dogberthow@yoyo.com.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Fine Print
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
*FLAMES*FAN MAIL*FEEDBACK*
Please send everything like that off to Laurie, the Quality
Obsessed Customer Service Rep for the game. Her address is
ratbert@yoyo.com (she lives under the copying machine, in a
little nest there, right next to Ratbert).
Laurie will forward any game feedback to Scott, in neatly
tied daily bundles. Scott prefers it this way -- he told us
so. Letting Laurie solve your problems will allow Scott to
focus on drawing more great comics for us to enjoy.
* Official Notice About the Vagaries of E-mail *
As you've doubtless discovered if you've used e-mail even
once, it usually gets where it's going when it's supposed
to, BUT sometimes the e-mail gods divert your message to
Elbonia. If your answers to the game questions land in our
system after the deadline or fail to make it to us
altogether, we can't count them. We send out a message
listing the correct answers right after the deadline. The
Internet *should* work on time all the time, but it doesn't.
The best thing you can do is send in your answers well in
advance of the deadline.
* Player ID *
Your player ID is the collection of digits and letters,
enclosed in parentheses, on the Subject line of every
question e-mail you receive in this game. It looks like this
example: (123456di). We need to have your player ID in every
communication to Yoyodyne. Most mailers will set this up
automatically when you use the "Reply" button. If yours
won't, then copy over the Subject line from the Question
message and paste it into the Subject line of your reply.
* More Info *
For more information about The Dilbert Trivia Game, send
e-mail to these addresses:
Quality of Life Issues: ratbert@yoyo.com
How to Play: dogberthow@yoyo.com
Game FAQ: dogbertfaq@yoyo.com
The Official Rules: dogbertrules@yoyo.com
Web site: http://www.yoyo.com/dilbert
Tell your friends to play The Dilbert Trivia Game, and see
whose score is higher! The sign-up address is
dilbert@yoyo.com. Like, wow.
For info about other free Yoyodyne games you could be
playing, send e-mail to win@yoyo.com or, even better, visit
our Web site at http://www.yoyo.com. And don't forget about
our free weekly newsletter. E-mail news@yoyo.com to sign up.
---
Yoyodyne Entertainment
"Where the future begins...tomorrow."
win@yoyo.com, http://www.yoyo.com
Copyright, United Features Syndicate, Inc. 1997
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-07 (Wed, 7 May 1997 20:58:53 +0800) - (1048129di) Questions, Round Thirteen, The Dilbert Trivia Game - _dogbert@yoyo.com_

73
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# 1997-05-01 - Re: [CRYPTO] ZKP
## Header Data
From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 01279160acf2dd2897031fb41a536b7dbe75c31573beda4960555e61a8f440b2<br>
Message ID: \<199705011740.TAA26115@basement.replay.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-01 17:58:47 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 01:58:47 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 01:58:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: [CRYPTO] ZKP
Message-ID: <199705011740.TAA26115@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 10:00:24 -0600 (MDT)
From: Graham-John Bullers <real@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca>
To: Anonymous <nobody@replay.com>
Cc: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: [CRYPTO] ZKP
Sender: owner-cypherpunks@toad.com
I think Vulis needs each of us to send ten copies of this back to him.
On Thu, 1 May 1997, Anonymous wrote:
> Tim May is widely recognized on the net, because of his
> frequent vitriolic postings, as someone/thing ready to cut
> off his own penis to spite Graham-John Bullers, although his
> friends recognize him better from the rear.
>
> __
> /_/\__
> \_\/\_\ Tim May
> /\_\/_/
> \/_/
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Graham-John Bullers Modulator of alt.2600.modulated
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
email : real@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca : ab756@freenet.toronto.on.ca
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-01 (Fri, 2 May 1997 01:58:47 +0800) - Re: [CRYPTO] ZKP - _nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)_

106
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# 1997-05-29 - Surveillance State Delayed
## Header Data
From: Duncan Frissell \<frissell@panix.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net<br>
Message Hash: 013fa18901148fa5be7bd2e74ea380cac46daec0d4d20d27437db5133551dd23<br>
Message ID: \<3.0.2.32.19970529165544.0378ce64@panix.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-29 21:10:59 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 05:10:59 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Duncan Frissell <frissell@panix.com>
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 05:10:59 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Surveillance State Delayed
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970529165544.0378ce64@panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Fascinating article in last Saturday's New York Times about INS plans to
revoke the U.S. citizenship of 5,000 people who got that citizenship sans
criminal background checks so they could vote for Clinton in '96.
Now, the INS revokes a big 25 citizenships a year so they really have a job
ahead of them. Demonstrates the enforcement challenges of bureaucracies
living in a mass society. They think they can get away with administrative
revocations but even those can be appealed to federal court. 5,000 appeals
would be quite a burden. If they wait too long and two years pass from time
of granting, the Service will lose the administrative option and will have to
do full court proceedings to revoke.
Even if they revoke, the "aliens" will still have their old proofs of
citizenship (passports, etc) as well as their former status as permanent
residents so revocation may be meaningless in any case.
That's not the cutest bit, though.
In addition to the 5,000 new Clinton voters with provable criminal records,
they had to go through 180,000 records of people with various sorts of
documentation problems to see if any of them were criminals. But the Feds
couldn't do it themselves. They lacked the capability. They hired one of
the
big accounting firms (Peat-Marwick?) to CHECK THE NAMES against the NCIC.
They got some 9,000 positive matches but naturally, they can't tell how many
of those 9,000 matches are false positives. Lots of work ahead.
The gloom and doom types like to claim that it is trivial for the almighty
Feds to find out everything about every one, look inside the souls of all of
us, separate the good from the evil and unerringly punish the evil.
Omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence. Oddly enough, this claim is often
made
by people who, otherwise, don't believe in God.
But this article on citizenship revocation gives lie to this claim of state
power. Citizenship applicants have submitted vast quantities of information
about themselves to the Feds. They have undergone years of a staged and
complex process to move from nonresident alien to resident alien to citizen.
At every point, they NARCed themselves out in detail directly to the federal
government. And yet, that same government can't even tell if these people
are
"criminals."
If they can't efficiently surveil and regulate this group, what chance do
they
have to regulate and surveil the other 260 million of us?
DCF
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 5.0 beta
Charset: noconv
iQCVAwUBM43tToVO4r4sgSPhAQHhcAP+O3Kn/rTtonspM+fWF7S/MeoV/zENTgll
Di4GCB1oZTlvU9je6ucRxpXvezsjgibmurApR22j3J0rhgHAVOCT8+EjNLAi3yGh
mwXXuCH/Z55nAXVit8mZvXSrJ8OPFWMn57Nma33uaD48QJ7AFqVxISi7+pSI91Mx
LR0oZ1nJE/8=
=oo4o
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-29 (Fri, 30 May 1997 05:10:59 +0800) - Surveillance State Delayed - _Duncan Frissell \<frissell@panix.com\>_
+ 1997-05-29 (Fri, 30 May 1997 05:30:47 +0800) - [Re: Surveillance State Delayed](/archive/1997/05/9b0f52948bd65d922ac0ff3965f9608bdae51cde5c00e3659c1429c4274a6a9d) - _"Paul H. Merrill" \<phm@sprynet.com\>_

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layout: default
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# 1997-05-16 - New Canadian Techno Law
## Header Data
From: nobody@huge.cajones.com (Huge Cajones Remailer)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 01990ecca42a3e6fb268af0163dd754184bb814ad38fdbb541ffb213b9935138<br>
Message ID: \<199705161704.KAA18293@fat.doobie.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-16 18:25:55 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 02:25:55 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: nobody@huge.cajones.com (Huge Cajones Remailer)
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 02:25:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: New Canadian Techno Law
Message-ID: <199705161704.KAA18293@fat.doobie.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
>From RCMP Web Site: http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/
Late last year, Allan Rock, minister of justice, introduced a bill
containing nearly 150 proposed
amendments to the Criminal Code and related statutes. Highlights of Bill
C-17 include several
changes to address computer crime, credit card forgery and fraud and
fraudulently obtaining
services. The RCMP, supported strongly by the Canadian Bankers
Association and the Canadian
issuers of Visa and MasterCard, had previously urged a number of changes
to offences dealing with
credit card fraud and computer-assisted crimes.
Bill C-17 is presently before Parliament and is in the second reading
stage. The following legislative
proposals will be of interest to law enforcement agencies and to our
private and public sector
partners engaged in the detection, investigation, and prosecution of
technological crime:
Expanding section 183 of the Criminal Code to include new offences
for which an
authorization to intercept private communication could be granted.
The new offences
would include, inter alia, section 327, section 342, section 342.1,
section 342.2, and
section 430 of the Criminal Code.
Amending section 342 to make possession, use, or trafficking of
forged credit cards
an offence.
Amending section 342 to make the misuse of credit card data an
offence.
Amending section 342 to make it an offence to make, buy or sell,
export or import,
or possess equipment intended for use in forging credit cards.
Amending section 342.1 to make it an offence to use, possess, or
traffick in
computer passwords that would enable another person to fraudulently
obtain a
computer service.
Creating section 342.2 to make it an offence to make, possess,
sell, offer for sale, or
distribute any instrument or device that is intended to be used to
fraudulently obtain
a computer service.
Amending section 487 to impose a duty on the person in possession
or control of a
computer system to provide data in the form of a print-out or other
intelligible output
when a lawful search of such a facility is being conducted.
Technological Crime Section is optimistic that the proposed amendments,
once passed into law, will
significantly aid its efforts in dealing with this rapidly emerging and
sometimes very troublesome
genre of crimes.
For further information and updates on the progress of this bill,
readers are encouraged to
consult the Department of Justice Homepage at:
http://canada.justice.gc.ca.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-16 (Sat, 17 May 1997 02:25:55 +0800) - New Canadian Techno Law - _nobody@huge.cajones.com (Huge Cajones Remailer)_

109
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# 1997-05-23 - Spying On and Burgling Churches...is it "Legal"?
## Header Data
From: Tim May \<tcmay@got.net\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 01a45c066abf0d9fa43aa62ace5187e9d2452d17d0a3912bcbf00f14b1e68ac4<br>
Message ID: \<v03102800afabc51894d9@[207.167.93.63]\><br>
Reply To: \<199705232059.NAA13536@krypton.chromatic.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-23 22:50:51 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 06:50:51 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Tim May <tcmay@got.net>
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 06:50:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Spying On and Burgling Churches...is it "Legal"?
In-Reply-To: <199705232059.NAA13536@krypton.chromatic.com>
Message-ID: <v03102800afabc51894d9@[207.167.93.63]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 1:59 PM -0700 5/23/97, Ernest Hua wrote:
>> And some government spook is going to break into a church's computer
>> to find out if they are secret terrorists because they oppose this
>> or that government policy.
>
>This is an interesting point on which very little serious debate is
>taking place:
>
> Is it EVER okay for spooks to break into a church's computer to
> find out if they are secret terrorists?
Perhaps there is "little serious debate" on this because the U.S.
Constitution and 200+ years of later history pretty well decided the matter.
Granted, Hoover and his Secret Police were not the first to violate the
Fourth Amendment (or the First, etc.). Granted, the spying on the Catholic
Church with regard to the "Sanctuary Movement" (vis-a-vis the sheltering of
El Salvadoran refugees) was not even the most recent such example.
But there can be little "serious debate" about extra-legal,
unconstitutional spying.
However, Cypherpunks don't believe laws protect privacy.
The proper solution is strong cryptography and related tools. (And possible
private and quiet disposal of anyone caught inside a home, church, etc.,
planting illegal bugs, breaking and entering, etc.)
The real debate these days is whether such privacy tools should be
controlled and licensed by the government. I think the answer is clear.
Oh, and Cypherpunks don't much believe in this debate either. Regardless of
what the herd votes on, or approves out of complacence and ignorance,
Cypherpunks will tend to ignore such decisions.
>I'm not sure the answer is clearly one way or another, and I am
>willing to bet that the tone of the answers will mostly be emotional
>appeals to some idealistic standard or pessimistic nightmares.
I suggest you reread the U.S. Constitution, where the answer to your debate
was pretty clearly resolved. If the government wants to get a search
warrant against a church or any other entity, they can try. Or even a
wiretap (though such things didn't exist at the Founding). But the U.S.
Constitution does not provide for secret police breaking into churches or
homes in the dead of night without court authorization. Period. Legal
scholars are invited to correct me on this one if I am wrong.
(Yes, I'm aware that they do it, and that they can possibly even cite the
Executive Decision authorizing them to break into homes, plant evidence,
kill the residents, whatever. This doesn't make their actions
constitutional, and someday some court is going to have the guts to say so.)
--Tim May
There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-23 (Sat, 24 May 1997 05:31:56 +0800) - [Re: Key Recovery / The True Story](/archive/1997/05/99c06295b067692baba7b2e8f53d62fbbbfbb88831e0b951df3fd276faac1802) - _Ernest Hua \<hua@chromatic.com\>_
+ 1997-05-23 (Sat, 24 May 1997 06:50:51 +0800) - Spying On and Burgling Churches...is it "Legal"? - _Tim May \<tcmay@got.net\>_

60
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layout: default
---
# 1997-05-14 - Information request
## Header Data
From: DataET Research \<staff@dataet.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 020721e35eb23167c4c0d037d131107260f843a9f24043ab31b671db5a7cfd54<br>
Message ID: \<337A39D9.303F@dataet.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-14 22:42:15 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 06:42:15 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: DataET Research <staff@dataet.com>
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 06:42:15 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Information request
Message-ID: <337A39D9.303F@dataet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Hi,
If you are interested in having a high-quality, but extensively
inexpensive, Web site designed for you, your résumé, or your company,
visit http://www.dataet.com or contact info@dataet.com immediately, and
request for additional information and/or a free cost and time
estimation.
Thanks for your time. We hope to hear from you soon.
Regards,
DataET Research
Data Engineering Technologies
info@dataet.com
http://www.dataet.com
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-14 (Thu, 15 May 1997 06:42:15 +0800) - Information request - _DataET Research \<staff@dataet.com\>_
+ 1997-05-14 (Thu, 15 May 1997 07:19:49 +0800) - [Re: Information request](/archive/1997/05/891c220d6d4d41cd3833cea8cb6f05b0853bdea59406ccf79174a8d084659a2a) - _Ray Arachelian \<sunder@brainlink.com\>_

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# 1997-05-15 - update.321 (fwd)
## Header Data
From: Jim Choate \<ravage@einstein.ssz.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)<br>
Message Hash: 0209b58233098c18fd57d49706d21d9a581ce027f3dc2daea2457478474c62ce<br>
Message ID: \<199705150246.VAA28144@einstein.ssz.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-15 03:59:39 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 11:59:39 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Jim Choate <ravage@einstein.ssz.com>
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 11:59:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: update.321 (fwd)
Message-ID: <199705150246.VAA28144@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text
Forwarded message:
>From physnews@aip.org Wed May 14 13:21:46 1997
Date: Wed, 14 May 97 10:24:01 EDT
From: physnews@aip.org (AIP listserver)
Message-Id: <9705141424.AA09540@aip.org>
To: physnews-mailing@aip.org
Subject: update.321
PHYSICS NEWS UPDATE
The American Institute of Physics Bulletin of Physics News
Number 321 May 13, 1997 by Phillip F. Schewe and Ben Stein
A PHOTON CONVEYOR BELT has been created using sound
waves and lasers, bringing about a new method for processing and
storing light signals on a chip. In some opto-electronic devices it
is desirable to delay or store an optically-encoded message by
dispatching it down kilometer-long fiber cul-de-sacs. In a device
developed at the University of Munich, the delay can be
accomplished more compactly by first converting the light into a
splash of excitons (electron-hole pairs) which propagate at a more
leisurely pace, the electrons and holes surfing along on different
parts of a guiding acoustic wave. Later the electron-hole pairs
recombine into photons, which are read out at the other end of the
sample. In effect the signal has been converted from a speed-of-
light wave into a speed-of-sound wave, and back again. This
technique is also a way of prolonging the lifetime of excitons,
which typically live for mere nanoseconds before recombining; in
this experiment they have now been preserved for microseconds.
(C. Rocke et al., Physical Review Letters, 19 May 1997; contact
Achim Wixforth, Achim.Wixforth @physik.uni-muenchen.de;
animation at www.aip.org/physnews/graphics)
THE QUANTUM WAVEFUNCTION OF A MATTER WAVE,
the complete mathematical description of a quantum system, has
been experimentally reconstructed for the first time. Trapping a
single beryllium ion in electric fields, Dietrich Leibfried and his
colleagues at NIST created a state in which the ion has exactly one
quantum of vibrational energy. Determining the wavefunction,
which contains all the knowable information about this system, is
difficult because the uncertainty principle says that measuring its
position alters its momentum and vice versa. But by preparing the
same quantum state 500,000 times and making a different
measurement each time, the researchers sidestepped this limitation
and reconstructed piecemeal the probability for the ion to have
certain values of position and momentum. Known as the Wigner
function, this "quasiprobability" distribution can be mathematically
transformed into an average quantum wavefunction for the system
which, the researchers argue, is nearly identical to the actual
wavefunction. The NIST researchers were the first to measure
negative Wigner function values for certain coordinates of position
and momentum--something that can only happen for quantum
systems; this reflects the fact that the system can exist in many
states simultaneously. (Physical Review Letters, 18 November
1996.) Subsequently, physicists at the University of Konstanz in
Germany measured the Wigner function of a matter wave traveling
in free space--a helium atom traversing a pair of slits. (Nature, 13
March; also Science News, March 15.)
PHYSICISTS ARE 46 YEARS OLD AND MAKE $65,000 A
YEAR. These are median values for a PhD physicist in the U.S.
in 1996. Those who work at federal labs made the most (median
$78,500), even more than in industry (median $77,000); those at
4-year colleges made the least, with a median of $49,200.
Geographically, median salaries ranged from $70,000 (Pacific
states) to $56,200 (East South Central). New PhD's earn $31,000
at universties and $39,600 at federal labs. Salaries for female
physicists who have earned the PhD in the past 10 years are
comparable to salaries for male physicists with similar experience
("Society Membership Survey: Salaries 1996," a report issued in
April by the AIP Education and Employment Statistics Division;
contact Ray Chu, rchu@aip.org)
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-15 (Thu, 15 May 1997 11:59:39 +0800) - update.321 (fwd) - _Jim Choate \<ravage@einstein.ssz.com\>_

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# 1997-05-07 - Banking Secrecy and Nazi Gold
## Header Data
From: Tim May \<tcmay@got.net\><br>
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net<br>
Message Hash: 0223e5c7f32c21d78488ca7dba8e69e6651a583b2a058b45df668f18a43295b6<br>
Message ID: \<v03007800af9667d20ad6@[207.167.93.63]\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-07 16:47:36 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 00:47:36 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Tim May <tcmay@got.net>
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 00:47:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Banking Secrecy and Nazi Gold
Message-ID: <v03007800af9667d20ad6@[207.167.93.63]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
I try to deconstruct events, to determine what the real issues are.
Take the case of the ongoing flap over Switzerland and claims that Swiss
banks hid gold, jewels, and other forms of money for high-ranking Nazis.
Adding to the flap--actually, making it a newsworthy event--is the
allegation, probably true, that some of the gold was taken from Jews and
others sent to extermination camps.
(A further claim, not related to the Nazi claim directly, is that the bank
accounts of those who perished in the war were not made available to heirs,
that in some cases the banks even liquidated the accounts and used the
money for (unspecified) purposes. I know little about this particular
claim, and won't discuss it further.)
OK, so it's clear to all right-thinking persons what should be done:
Switzerland should return the money to the heirs of those killed by the
Nazis.
Ah, but it's not so clear to me. I guess I'm not a right-thinking person.
First, it is not a matter of "Switzerland" having done something, it is a
matter of several major banks and dozens (I presume) of lesser banks. It is
Credit Suisse, Union Bank, etc. who presumably took in deposits, with
numbered accounts (perfectly legal by Swiss law at the time), not the
"state of Switzerland."
Second, how could the _provenance_ of the deposits be determined by, say
Credit Suisse? How could Hans the Banker taking a deposit from Fritz the
Depositer somehow know that the money Fritz was depositing was from money
seized from Jews? For all Hans knew, especially in 1939-43, before any real
knowleedge of the extermination of Jews became available (and such
knowledge was still rare, as any examination of the newspapers of the day
will show), the money was from German families seeking to protect their own
assets, or was even money siphoned from the German war effort, and so on.
Third, the notion that "Switzerland must do something!" is pernicious and
inimical to banking secrecy and basic privacy issues. A drumbeat is
building which will serve to undermine banking secrecy around the world.
(Now what happened to the Jews in Europe was horrible, depicable, etc. It
was an example of the power of the total state to order the liquidation of
some religious or ethnic faction. But the horror of the liquidation of
millions of Jews, or millions of Chinese, or millions of Tutsis/Hutus,
etc., must not be an excuse for expanding the power of states still
further. That circular logic will ultimately kill even more in factions out
of favor.)
This issue relates to Chaumian anonymous cash, of course. One can imagine
various scenarios by which crypto anarchy is used to transfer funds, etc.
Left as an exercise for the imaginative.
As the "Nazi Gold" story continues to build, expect "Swiss bankers" to be
added to the list of the "Horsemen." (Swiss bankers always have been viewed
with some suspicion--and admiration. Usually related to their "sheltering"
of funds from dictators and mobsters. And their has long been the hint of
complicity with the Reich in some areas. But now the move is on to
associate Swiss banks with the Holocaust more explicitly.)
I suspect the U.S. pressure on Swiss banks has a political dimension
related to forcing a New World Order on international banking. The U.S.
wants banking secrecy subject to U.S. control (so that banks like Castle
Bank, Nugan Hand Bank, Banco Ambrosiano, BCCI, and the Bank of America can
continue to be used for U.S. interests, and only U.S. interests).
The Jews killed by the German state in the war are dead and gone. Most of
their money is irretrievably gone. The clamor to break banking secrecy and
"force" the banks to disclose all records is part of a larger political
game.
--Tim May
There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-07 (Thu, 8 May 1997 00:47:36 +0800) - Banking Secrecy and Nazi Gold - _Tim May \<tcmay@got.net\>_
+ 1997-05-07 (Thu, 8 May 1997 05:16:04 +0800) - [Re: Banking Secrecy and Nazi Gold](/archive/1997/05/d2bbc4a01ce9c4d4ca8188b08da342ffd211f2a501902ac1f3226b4fea65944b) - _Duncan Frissell \<frissell@panix.com\>_

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# 1997-05-14 - Re: Would the anonymous person(s) please...
## Header Data
From: lucifer@dhp.com (lucifer Anonymous Remailer)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 024b3f74569684418ee45b3fbaa9903f4b0f1b079a3349af1ffda85ca41cec83<br>
Message ID: \<199705140414.AAA32277@dhp.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-14 04:28:51 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:28:51 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: lucifer@dhp.com (lucifer Anonymous Remailer)
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:28:51 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Would the anonymous person(s) please...
Message-ID: <199705140414.AAA32277@dhp.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
bennett_t1@popmail.firn.edu wrote:
>
> Would all those anonymous remailing people with a flame tendency, please
> flame the person of your attacks, and don't send this bullshit to the
> list? Thanks...
No. (but thanks for asking so politely(
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-14 (Wed, 14 May 1997 12:28:51 +0800) - Re: Would the anonymous person(s) please... - _lucifer@dhp.com (lucifer Anonymous Remailer)_

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# 1997-05-05 - Re: Rejecting Dialog with Government Vermin
## Header Data
From: Kent Crispin \<kent@songbird.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net<br>
Message Hash: 024e68ccab9a9279b1c0d7d97187bb09e8d467b48178187a9e6eb62317d1c5c8<br>
Message ID: \<19970505142016.07466@bywater.songbird.com\><br>
Reply To: \<199705051536.IAA12717@mail.pacifier.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-05 22:17:42 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 06:17:42 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Kent Crispin <kent@songbird.com>
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 06:17:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Rejecting Dialog with Government Vermin
In-Reply-To: <199705051536.IAA12717@mail.pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <19970505142016.07466@bywater.songbird.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
On Mon, May 05, 1997 at 08:32:17AM -0800, Jim Bell wrote:
> At 08:50 5/02/97 -0700, Kent Crispin wrote:
> >On Fri, May 02, 1997 at 12:34:19AM -0800, Jim Bell wrote:
>
> >The basic point, really, is that organizational complexity grows
> >with the size of the organization, at a greater than linear rate.
> >This is because organizational complexity is a function of
> >interactions between members of the organization, which is at least
> >n-squared. (However, when you consider that alliances form and can
> >interact, the true complexity grows at a much faster rate.)
>
> You seem to be taken with making all sorts of bare, unsupported claims,
I didn't bother to support that claim because it is trivially
obvious. For your benefit:
In *any* organization of size n there are obviously n squared one to
one personal relationships possible. This is just mathematics. (Oh,
to be really precise, n^2 - n, since the relationship with yourself
doesn't count). However, any two people may form an alliance that may
have to be considered as a unit, likewise any three people, up to any
group of size n-1. Clearly, any large group must impose some
structure to function as a group, otherwise the communication
complexity is overwhelming. A frequent organization is a hierarchy,
or tree structure, and the standard rule of thumb is that a manager
should have around 7 direct subordinates. This is all so
basic...certainly it's kind of fluffy, because all social sciences
seem kind of fluffy. But the increase in complexity with
organization size is observationally obvious, as well. Compare big
business to small business. Compare Boy Scouts with your local
street gang.
> obviously with the intention of explaining (for example) away what was
> apparently an INTENTIONAL increase in the size of Federal government between
> (say) 1932 and today.
>
> To read your paragraph above, its increase in size was simply the
> unavoidable consequence of nature's laws or something akin to it. Maybe a
> product of number theory, or the Fibbonacci sequence, exponential increase,
> or something like that. Which would, if true, remove just about all the
> blame from those who were in control of the situation.
>
> BULLSHIT!
I'm not into the blame game, in general -- you know the old saying
about not assuming malice when stupidity is an adequate explanation?
Blame is a waste of time, in general. The only thing worth
considering is how to make things better, and sometimes I wonder
about that.
> Chances are good that at least 75% of the size of the US Federal government
> today is due to spending that wasn't considered the proper Constitutional
> function of the government before 1930, and certainly not before 1900 or so.
> (Large peacetime military, Socialist Insecurity, Welfare, Medicare,
> Medicaid, interest on national debt caused by deficit spending that occurred
> due to funding these previous atrocities, etc.)
So what?
One mans attempt to do social good is another man's atrocity, apparently,
just as one persons freedom fighter is another persons terrorist.
Any real government has to deal with the fact that people have
different opinions.
--
Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited",
kent@songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-05 (Tue, 6 May 1997 00:11:54 +0800) - [Re: Rejecting Dialog with Government Vermin](/archive/1997/05/07448362daccf0d6866a399101004b31fe8a3de57ef35bdbbbf5166efa1337e8) - _jimbell@pacifier.com (Jim Bell)_
+ 1997-05-05 (Tue, 6 May 1997 06:17:42 +0800) - Re: Rejecting Dialog with Government Vermin - _Kent Crispin \<kent@songbird.com\>_

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# 1997-05-27 - List problems or is it quiet???
## Header Data
From: root \<root@fatmans.demon.co.uk\><br>
To: cypherpunks@algebra.com<br>
Message Hash: 02998a38a9556fcd633413cf877ca86e8938221c3f4c08a50418ab70a311d27b<br>
Message ID: \<Pine.LNX.3.91.970527144732.2499A-100000@fatmans.demon.co.uk\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-27 16:49:08 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 00:49:08 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: root <root@fatmans.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 00:49:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@algebra.com
Subject: List problems or is it quiet???
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.970527144732.2499A-100000@fatmans.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
I have checked the cypherpunks archive following my comment that I was
not getting much mail from the list (only 8 to 10 posts per day) over the
last 2 or 3 days, and the archive confirms this. Igor and Jim have
confirmed that algebra and ssz are up, and cyberpass is reponding to
majordomo requests...
I`m just sending this to check that this really is not a list problem, as
of course 10 posts a day is an uncommonly low traffic level for the list.
Unless of course the black clad ninja`s have come round on 4am nomex
hooded raids, and you are all in the ministry of love being questioned
over allegations of thoughtcrime, which would explain the lack of posts
;-)......
Datacomms Technologies data security
Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk
Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org
Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/
Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85
"Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-27 (Wed, 28 May 1997 00:49:08 +0800) - List problems or is it quiet??? - _root \<root@fatmans.demon.co.uk\>_
+ 1997-05-27 (Wed, 28 May 1997 01:25:24 +0800) - [Re: List problems or is it quiet???](/archive/1997/05/9f8e873181ec03a1ab67ded8fb5f8ed9c6a4ff8e08456d212183bc4fed86ac59) - _"William H. Geiger III" \<whgiii@amaranth.com\>_

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# 1997-05-10 - Re: Wine Politics Again!
## Header Data
From: Robert Hettinga \<rah@shipwright.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 035b729135361759a3b2f54af15f2636f263653d08b0142e13a6f2eb629d3ed7<br>
Message ID: \<v0302090baf9a2c6511d1@[139.167.130.246]\><br>
Reply To: \<3.0.32.19970510003251.006c7650@cnw.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-10 14:09:40 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 22:09:40 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Robert Hettinga <rah@shipwright.com>
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 22:09:40 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Wine Politics Again!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970510003251.006c7650@cnw.com>
Message-ID: <v0302090baf9a2c6511d1@[139.167.130.246]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 3:35 am -0400 on 5/10/97, Blanc wrote:
> So I think right now he's less in the engagement of
> Reason and more under the influence of maybe some Bud Light.
Nah.
He's just doing his Sam Adams routine. (hyuk!)
Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-10 (Sat, 10 May 1997 15:45:42 +0800) - [Re: Wine Politics Again!](/archive/1997/05/1fefb870439d83bcec3b380ccf01792fe750dbde21f54c5c209ce3770b2ae70c) - _Blanc \<blancw@cnw.com\>_
+ 1997-05-10 (Sat, 10 May 1997 22:09:40 +0800) - Re: Wine Politics Again! - _Robert Hettinga \<rah@shipwright.com\>_

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# 1997-05-15 - Re: Pedophile Russ Allberry continues to flame Steve Boursy
## Header Data
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 03929caa086567371fd53e6a078c1e4492a3a7b910a54a7949c9fe5c610c70af<br>
Message ID: \<akTq7D46w165w@bwalk.dm.com\><br>
Reply To: \<Pine.BSI.3.96.970515050435.12061E-100000@shell.thecia.net\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-15 12:35:46 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 20:35:46 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 20:35:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Pedophile Russ Allberry continues to flame Steve Boursy
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.96.970515050435.12061E-100000@shell.thecia.net>
Message-ID: <akTq7D46w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
kibo <kibo@thecia.net> writes:
> > [DrG - if you want to follow up, please dig up the original article, not
> > my repose - thank you]
> >
> O.K., I will chop all of the header befor I post it, but this Russ Allbery
Thanks!!
> is becoming the biggest problem on usenet, since he supports Tim Skirvin.
> I think it is time for Russ to grow up and deal with the Net like a man.
>
> Time for him to become a child molester.
Well - if you want to say you heard that he's a child molester or that he
sounds like one, no decent ISP will have a problem. :-)
I think it would be fun to get Russ back on this list.
> > By the way, has anyone had a chance to verify whether Stan Kalisch who work
> > for the educational testing services is our net.acquaintance? Thanks.
> >
>
> Yes, I called them at that number, and and boss called me back.
Great - is he or isn't he the same person as skalisch@crl??
Thanks
> All Russ has to do is say the word, and Tim Skirvin will stop his
> shit. Russ Allbery is just as responsible for the Skirvin shit as
> Timmy boy himself is.
>
> Time to rip Russ Allbery a new asshole...
Maybe we should get Tim Skirvin on this list. :-)
---
Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-15 (Thu, 15 May 1997 20:35:46 +0800) - Re: Pedophile Russ Allberry continues to flame Steve Boursy - _dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)_

90
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-19 - Re: Distributing cryptographic code
## Header Data
From: Bill Stewart \<stewarts@ix.netcom.com\><br>
To: "Yoav Yerushalmi" \<yoav@MIT.EDU\><br>
Message Hash: 03aaa481a70c67e7314010b1bb8a4fb546b913b2a1446cef21edd9124625041b<br>
Message ID: \<3.0.1.32.19970519090410.00646430@popd.ix.netcom.com\><br>
Reply To: \<199705191420.IAA22020@teal.csn.net\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-19 16:57:20 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 00:57:20 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Bill Stewart <stewarts@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 00:57:20 +0800
To: "Yoav Yerushalmi" <yoav@MIT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Distributing cryptographic code
In-Reply-To: <199705191420.IAA22020@teal.csn.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970519090410.00646430@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
>> We would like to put this code up for distribution (within the US
>> of course), but don't actually know what is a 'reasonable' amount of
>> protection that one need apply to prevent people from exporting
>> it to the rest of the world.
The current MIT PGP software distribution has apparently had some
discussion with the Feds.
MPJ>The technical solution that I have come up with is (1) have a web form
MPJ> that asks 3 questions*, with the questions defaulting to "no"
The questions that get asked can be phrased in a lot of different ways;
as an anarchist I think that pgp.com's is a lot more friendly than some.
A few places go to the extremes of "Are you a Subject of the US Gov't?
Do you agree to be bound by every provision of the US Export laws,
written or unwritten, and not even CONSIDER giving this code to anyone
who might be a Furriner? Sign in blood here!", while others are more like
"Have you heard that the US export laws say <blah blah blah>?
Do you state that it's ok for you to have the code, and that
it's Not Our Fault?"
MPJ> If all 3 answers are "yes", and if the email address given is in a
MPJ> domain that might be in the USA (.com, .gov, .org, .us, .mil, .net,
Of course, .com, .net, and .org are non-nationally-based domains,
and even email servers physically located in the US often have
users located outside US territory. CompuServe is a prime example,
with users all over the world. Some US-only-code-distribution sites
try to keep track of which sites are in the US, at least for .net.
Since the MIT code distribution site has been allowed to operate
in spite of this, the attitude of the Export Cops appears to be a
"Yes, we know it's bogus and unenforceable, but we need to at least
maintain the pretense that we're enforcing it, so don't ask
for too much technical clarification or we'll have to say No."
[* Mime-Attachment: x-audio
Audio-Parameter-Setting: Don-Hopkins-Imitating-Monty-Python
"WHAT is your name?
WHAT is your favorite color?
HOW FAR can a migrating swallow fly while carrying a coconut?"
"Er, is that a European swallow, or an African swallow?"
# Thanks; Bill
# Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts@ix.netcom.com
# You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp
# (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-19 (Tue, 20 May 1997 00:57:20 +0800) - Re: Distributing cryptographic code - _Bill Stewart \<stewarts@ix.netcom.com\>_

156
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-31 - Re: Rotenberg as the Uber Enemy
## Header Data
From: lucifer@dhp.com (lucifer Anonymous Remailer)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 03c1cd121db606dc7a64914a465302dd638e493d6caa97511afb4d003cc5c5fc<br>
Message ID: \<199705312255.SAA26780@dhp.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-31 23:11:08 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 07:11:08 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: lucifer@dhp.com (lucifer Anonymous Remailer)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 1997 07:11:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Rotenberg as the Uber Enemy
Message-ID: <199705312255.SAA26780@dhp.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Robert A. Costner wrote:
> At 10:13 PM 5/30/97 -0700, Tim May wrote:
> >The latest quote is from Marc Rotenberg, on a CNN piece on spam and
> >anti-spam legislation, saying that what the legislators in Congress really
> >need to look into is how the spammers develop their data bases.....
> ...
> >Incredible. Does he propose investigations of private data gathering?
>
> I'd agree here. Rather than have Congress blindly pass a law, some
> investigation of the matter should be done first. While I am not supporting a
> law, any such law should have three parts:
I don't support a new Holocaust, but if we are going to build gas
chambers for killing Jews, they should be...
When you are on a car lot "just looking" at the new models, the sales
person quickly gets you deciding on the color and other features that
you would want if you *did* purchase a car. You end up driving home in
a car you can't afford and with a vague feeling that the sales person
might be the one who is responsible for all that legislation that keeps
getting passed for your benefit.
> For good or for bad, the current movement in lawmaking is to plug these
> loopholes that exist for email.
Judging from the governments past success in plugging the "loopholes"
that allow people to exercise their right to Free Speech, I am certain
they will be able to "save" us from the incredible danger that spam
represents to our well-being.
> >Look, I'm annoyed by getting 5-10 "unwanted" spam messages a day.
>
> Then you miss the point. For all practical purposes, the spam industry does
> not exist in the US.
> The current
> spam bills are meant to address the actions of about five people in the entire
> United States.
If the small number of people affected is the basis for justifying
the action taken on the issue, then we could just kill them. If you are
going to rob a bank, take *all* of the money. If you are going to rape
someone, then put it *all* the way in.
{"Your honour, I would like to point out that my client only raped
five women, and he didn't even stick his schlong all the way in. That
hardly puts him in the same category as a *real* rapist.}
> The manner in which the information is collected is invasive. People feel
> their privacy is being violated. The right to be left alone is a fundamental
> right.
Somebody forgot to tell the government.
> -- Robert Costner Phone: (770) 512-8746
> Electronic Frontiers Georgia mailto:pooh@efga.org
If you are in any way profiting from the EFG, whether monetarily or
by increased reputation capital, etc., then your post is an Unsolicited
Commercial Email. If not, then it is spam. I can say this with absolute
authority, because I am the person who decides which of my mail is spam
and which is not.
Encryption businesses sometimes post announcements of new releases
and the like on the cypherpunks list and I don't usually consider it to
be spam. DataETR posted an announcement on the list and then complained
mightily when cypherpunks asked serious questions about their product.
In my mind, that made their announcement just another commercial product
spam. Now that they have made an effort to actually participate in the
list by "listening" to the list members I no longer consider them to be
just another commercial spammer.
A few list members who have a product or cause to push do so without
adding any real input to the list. In my mind, their posts are usually
as interesting as reading about how someone is making "BIG $$$" by
spamming me.
Tom Weinstein, of Netscape, actually "participates" in the list by
discussing the pro's and con's of his product and others, and being
generally realistic about his company's product. If his posts were
nothing more than claims about how Netscape would get those nasty stains
out of my shorts, then I would consider them spam.
Jim Bell beat his "Assassination Politics" drum to the point where
he beat it to death and his posts became unwanted spam to some on the
list.
I read privacy related announcements and the like from organizations
which are theoretically in alliance with the general aims of the list
and consider many of them to be useless spam.
"XXXX Organization Fighting For Legislation That Only Fucks Over
Five People!"
"YYYY Organization Supports Bill That Lets Government Cut Off One
Of Each Citizen's Fingers, Instead Of Two!"
As far as I am concerned, any organization that is "fighting" for
"my" rights by getting involved in political lobbying/activism, etc.,
holds no interest for me as a cypherpunk. There is not a mother's son
among them who isn't soon knee-deep in self-serving "deals" and
"compromise."
I don't participate in this list to read self-serving missives which
attempt to justify career activists' participation in the government's
dark comedy. If Bill Clinton posted his announcements in regard to
government crypto policy on the cypherpunks list, I would consider it
to be spam. If he sincerely solicited my opinion on the policies, then
he would be a list participant.
There are some list members whose posts are so knee-jerk and
unthinking that they amount to nothing more than an unsolicited
commercial advertisement for their precious self-image.
Please! Don't fight for legislation to protect me from their posts.
I would be tempted to support legislation requiring certain list
members to put "BORING AND STUPID" in the Subject header, but then
I would probably be forced to put "CYNICAL AND PESSIMISTIC" in my
own Subject headers.
My failure to include a donation to your organization with this
post is not an oversight.
C&P
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-31 (Sun, 1 Jun 1997 07:11:08 +0800) - Re: Rotenberg as the Uber Enemy - _lucifer@dhp.com (lucifer Anonymous Remailer)_

86
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-25 - Re: Beware of encrypted processors bearing gifts...
## Header Data
From: Lucky Green \<shamrock@netcom.com\><br>
To: Dave Emery \<cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0413694094266fd2a1afc51c8c2eebc75ac49ef1d5a83768a7126aa17eebdab8<br>
Message ID: \<3.0.32.19970524204444.00739384@netcom13.netcom.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-25 04:01:48 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 12:01:48 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Lucky Green <shamrock@netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 25 May 1997 12:01:48 +0800
To: Dave Emery <cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Beware of encrypted processors bearing gifts...
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970524204444.00739384@netcom13.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 10:28 PM 5/24/97 -0400, Dave Emery wrote:
> A three way encrypted handshake between an encrypted agent that
>was part of the OS and a smart card and software at an ISP could be
>used to enforce an internet drivers license law for example, with no
>packets being forwarded by the ISP without hard authentication (even up
>to biometrics) of the user. And it would be rather trivial to disallow
>use of "unapproved" software to communicate over the net, making
>enforcement of GAK much more complete. One could even use such a
>mechanism to forbid use of any uncertified software on a net connected
>machine, thus making it rather hard to use such rogue applications as
>PGP.
I strongly agree with you. While the motivation that lead to the
development of such processors stems probably from the desire to thwart
software piracy, it will make implementation of the "Internet Driver
License" that much easier.
[For those new to Cypherpunks, I consider the requirement for an Internet
Driver License as inevitable as the sun raising tomorrow morning. While the
event is technically in the future, it will occur with a certainty that it
may just as well have already happened in the past. Read the graphic novel
"Watchmen" if you don't understand what I am talking about. Sure, there is
a small but no-zero probability that the Earth will be vaporized before
sunrise by a timebomb left by aliens 3.5 million years ago. That's why I
wrote "as inevitable", as opposed to "inevitable".]
Smartcard readers and processors with encrypted instruction sets are just a
first step to the ultimate goal, requiring biometric authentication to the
applications on your machine. Some will claim they won't use such machines
and stick to their old Pentium Pro's. I just threw out an old 286, because
I couldn't find a single person that wanted it for free. Your 200 MHz
Pentium Pro will be just as useful as that old 286 a few years hence. Sure,
it will still operate and you can even run some old programs on it. But it
simply will be unsuitable as your primary machine. Instead, you will find
yourself using a box that runs code you can't possible figure out what it
does and requires biometric authentication for login.
Have fun,
--Lucky Green <shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred.
Put a stake through the heart of DES! Join the quest at
http://www.frii.com/~rcv/deschall.htm
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-25 (Sun, 25 May 1997 12:01:48 +0800) - Re: Beware of encrypted processors bearing gifts... - _Lucky Green \<shamrock@netcom.com\>_
+ 1997-05-25 (Sun, 25 May 1997 14:34:44 +0800) - [Re: Beware of encrypted processors bearing gifts...](/archive/1997/05/fec4c0c41770a2bbe2eba6e0dbf345b915929d846eeb80240f05e5183a123d62) - _Steve Schear \<azur@netcom.com\>_

80
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-28 - Re: OECD attacks one of the Four Horsemen
## Header Data
From: nobody@huge.cajones.com (Huge Cajones Remailer)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 041dd38b4b3abfbf24e91fe7fe8e20c8db97510bfa72476179bd218c52744aff<br>
Message ID: \<199705281724.KAA15380@fat.doobie.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-28 17:56:13 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 01:56:13 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: nobody@huge.cajones.com (Huge Cajones Remailer)
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 01:56:13 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: OECD attacks one of the Four Horsemen
Message-ID: <199705281724.KAA15380@fat.doobie.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Tim May wrote:
>
> News reports this morning that the OECD is moving out of strictly economic
> matters and is focussing on "child porn," calling a special meeting in July
> to discuss the laws of various countries and how they can be regularized to
> control the availability of porn and child porn on the Net.
>
> (The OECD is the Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development
> The war is moving into its next phase.
There will be a "War on Porn" on the internet that will mirror the
"War on Drugs" currently taking place.
All that the government wants is their piece of the action. Like
drugs, the porn will always be available, but the price will
fluctuate according to the level of government control and/or
illegality.
The "War on Porn" will turn into another essential national industry
which will become part of the GNP.
The "winners" in this war will be the journalists who have covered
the "War on Drugs" as they will merely have to dust off old stories
and substitute "Porn" for "Drugs" wherever it occurs.
The "loser" will be the Hoover Vacume Cleaner Company, whose development
of Virtual Cathouse technology will fall victim to new legislation.
TruthMonger
> --Tim May
>
> There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
> Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
> ---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
> Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
> tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
> W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
> Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments.
> "National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-28 (Thu, 29 May 1997 01:56:13 +0800) - Re: OECD attacks one of the Four Horsemen - _nobody@huge.cajones.com (Huge Cajones Remailer)_

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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-22 - CABLE DESCRAMBLER...Build Cheap & Easy!
## Header Data
From: 53807121@earthlink.net<br>
To: Friend@public.com<br>
Message Hash: 042d81e502d3fd039fae51a1f1c575ba7e649c73b63fcc36ddc9875e36b52586<br>
Message ID: \<\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-22 03:54:32 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 20:54:32 -0700 (PDT)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: 53807121@earthlink.net
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 20:54:32 -0700 (PDT)
To: Friend@public.com
Subject: CABLE DESCRAMBLER...Build Cheap & Easy!
Message-ID: <>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
<HTML><PRE><BODY BGCOLOR="#000000"><FONT COLOR="#00FFFF" SIZE=3>
CABLE DESCRAMBLER -Build with 7 Radio Shack parts costing $13.00
-----------View all PREMIUM and PAY- PER VIEW channels.--------------
Our Cable Descrambler package is an information kit containing easy to
follow, step-by-step instructions on how to build a cable descrambler
from a few inexpensive parts available at Radio Shack or your local
electronics store.
Your descrambler will allow you to view ALL the Premium and
Pay-Per-View channels as long as you subscribe to BASIC cable service.
The assembly is very simple and does not require any kind of
electronic training or experience. Just follow the clear
instructions and simple diagram and you will be enjoying your extra
channels in less than an hour.
IT'S THAT EASY!
Don't wait. Order now and you too can begin enjoying all that cable
television has to offer.
So save yourself some money! ....Order your cable descrambler package
today for a one time fee of only $13.95
We will send your package right away... And as always, our plans are
backed by a full MONEY-BACK-GUARANTEE.
************************************************************
ORDER FORM:
(circle one)
Cash Money Order Check Credit Card
(Circle One: VISA, M/C, Discover)
Credit card # ________________________________________
Expiration Date____________________
Signature_________________________________________
Guaranteed Fee $13.95. I need you to RUSH processing. Please add
$5.00: Total $_______
TO EXPEDITE PROCESSING: Fill out all information, print, and
FAX TO (619) 682-1021 (If paying by credit card)
If paying by cash, check, or money order....
Please make payable to: FREEDOM PUBLISHING....
Fill out the following information;
& MAIL TO:
FREEDOM PUBLISHING
P.O. Box 15131
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Name_____________________________
Address___________________ City ___________ State _____Zip __________
Phone #(___)____ -________
FREEDOM PUBLISHING
PO Box 15131
San Diego, CA 92175
************************************************************
Once you have received this message you are automatically removed from
our mailing list. We are sorry if this message was unwanted....Sincerely.
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3>
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-22 (Wed, 21 May 1997 20:54:32 -0700 (PDT)) - CABLE DESCRAMBLER...Build Cheap & Easy! - _53807121@earthlink.net_

61
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-08 - Re: Netscape-128 not at Replay.com
## Header Data
From: Alex de Joode \<usura@replay.com\><br>
To: Michael.Johnson@mejl.com (Mike)<br>
Message Hash: 05029199cfff5184fc29f1b54cd59f18baf1414066c1cdb879b26748be2cf254<br>
Message ID: \<199705081432.QAA02801@basement.replay.com\><br>
Reply To: \<3.0.1.32.19970507140543.00912550@localhost\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-08 15:23:27 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 23:23:27 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Alex de Joode <usura@replay.com>
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 23:23:27 +0800
To: Michael.Johnson@mejl.com (Mike)
Subject: Re: Netscape-128 not at Replay.com
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970507140543.00912550@localhost>
Message-ID: <199705081432.QAA02801@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text
ftp.replay.com:/pub/crypto/browsers
:
:
: It seems that the US versions of Netscape have been removed from
: ftp.replay.com. Did Netscape comment on the software being available, or
: what happened?
:
: Mike.
:
:
--
-aj-
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-07 (Wed, 7 May 1997 20:29:24 +0800) - [Netscape-128 not at Replay.com](/archive/1997/05/60debb6b87decd16913f507a90cedcf40d1a3ee0fcfbd428d101f3f2eb5212e7) - _Mike \<Michael.Johnson@mejl.com\>_
+ 1997-05-08 (Thu, 8 May 1997 23:23:27 +0800) - Re: Netscape-128 not at Replay.com - _Alex de Joode \<usura@replay.com\>_

88
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-20 - Re: More on the Jim Bell case
## Header Data
From: Steve Schear \<azur@netcom.com\><br>
To: Alan Olsen \<alan@ctrl-alt-del.com\><br>
Message Hash: 05136f332ff0ed93cb6c603e6fc86234efa187a92bac147ecf16f2c93f36650b<br>
Message ID: \<v0300780dafa6d66d2751@[10.0.2.15]\><br>
Reply To: \<3.0.2.32.19970519183115.00b84e30@mail.teleport.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-20 04:41:09 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 12:41:09 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Steve Schear <azur@netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 12:41:09 +0800
To: Alan Olsen <alan@ctrl-alt-del.com>
Subject: Re: More on the Jim Bell case
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19970519183115.00b84e30@mail.teleport.com>
Message-ID: <v0300780dafa6d66d2751@[10.0.2.15]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>The local news just had a story on the Jim Bell case.
>
>They are now claiming that the search warrent (how the news people got a copy
>is a big question) included Sarin nerve gas and Anthrax (not the band).
Nah, he told me that stuff was destroyed long ago ;-)
Can't imagine anyone going the trouble of culturing Anthrax when there's
other simpler to obtain/manufacture and almost as potent CBW agents ;;-)
>
>The news story was a pretty interesting hatchet job. Included a number of
>horsemen and prominently mentioned encryption.
I impression was that jim didn't use encryption religously ;-(
>They claimed that the reason
>for the raid on East's home was because he sent Bell encrypted messages
>containing various evil and unauthorized thoughts.
So did a good portion of this list.
--Steve
PGP mail preferred
Fingerprint: FE 90 1A 95 9D EA 8D 61 81 2E CC A9 A4 4A FB A9
Key available on BAL server, http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Schear | tel: (702) 658-2654
CEO | fax: (702) 658-2673
First ECache Corporation |
7075 West Gowan Road |
Suite 2148 |
Las Vegas, NV 89129 | Internet: azur@netcom.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I know not what instruments others may use,
but as for me, give me Ecache or give me debt.
SHOW ME THE DIGITS!
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-20 (Tue, 20 May 1997 09:42:38 +0800) - [More on the Jim Bell case](/archive/1997/05/9ec66ce5ab49edc68d3f86589a8136b6da62997ce26eed95c3868e0a4b266f62) - _Alan Olsen \<alan@ctrl-alt-del.com\>_
+ 1997-05-20 (Tue, 20 May 1997 12:41:09 +0800) - Re: More on the Jim Bell case - _Steve Schear \<azur@netcom.com\>_

63
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# 1997-05-21 - Re: Hey, what does this mean?
## Header Data
From: Ryan Anderson \<randerso@ece.eng.wayne.edu\><br>
To: Tim May \<tcmay@got.net\><br>
Message Hash: 056dd4d11ef68d81c29e7d416a62d057c76d0dbe05ab7f7943cdec040c020edc<br>
Message ID: \<Pine.GSO.3.95.970521163045.13177M-100000@ece\><br>
Reply To: \<v03007804afa7d8fc47e2@[207.167.93.63]\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-21 20:45:37 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 04:45:37 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Ryan Anderson <randerso@ece.eng.wayne.edu>
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 04:45:37 +0800
To: Tim May <tcmay@got.net>
Subject: Re: Hey, what does this mean?
In-Reply-To: <v03007804afa7d8fc47e2@[207.167.93.63]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.970521163045.13177M-100000@ece>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
On Tue, 20 May 1997, Tim May wrote:
> Anybody know what this means?
> According to Arlington detective Tom DeGongue, Aaron was charged Monday in
> Arlington Circuit Court with one felony count of possession of bomb-making
> instructions and one misdemeanor count of resisting arrest. According to
Felony count of possession of bomb-making instructions? *INSTRUCTIONS*?
he'll be on the streets tomorrow, no charges pressed.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ryan Anderson - <Pug Majere> "Who knows, even the horse might sing"
Wayne State University - CULMA "May you live in interesting times.."
randerso@ece.eng.wayne.edu Ohio = VYI of the USA
PGP Fingerprint - 7E 8E C6 54 96 AC D9 57 E4 F8 AE 9C 10 7E 78 C9
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-20 (Wed, 21 May 1997 06:17:16 +0800) - [Hey, what does this mean?](/archive/1997/05/be9a02eec5a8804d636e2d491561abd785f0e2ca8e2d9a6902b128aea8900a89) - _Tim May \<tcmay@got.net\>_
+ 1997-05-21 (Thu, 22 May 1997 04:45:37 +0800) - Re: Hey, what does this mean? - _Ryan Anderson \<randerso@ece.eng.wayne.edu\>_
+ 1997-05-22 (Thu, 22 May 1997 10:14:54 +0800) - [Re: Hey, what does this mean?](/archive/1997/05/e2334b0d25150e749b99cb5dc2d4f5ed62d3d46e2973ae41aa911f626d4888d3) - _Rabid Wombat \<wombat@mcfeely.bsfs.org\>_

54
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# 1997-05-14 - Re: Quadratic residues
## Header Data
From: nobody@huge.cajones.com (Huge Cajones Remailer)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 05a4df26dbab52ededa4bdd9c594e0880361ff28cd0f1c5eb20abadda3ae8096<br>
Message ID: \<199705141118.EAA21038@fat.doobie.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-14 12:04:14 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 20:04:14 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: nobody@huge.cajones.com (Huge Cajones Remailer)
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 20:04:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Quadratic residues
Message-ID: <199705141118.EAA21038@fat.doobie.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Tim May's mother attempted to pro-choice the unwanted
little bastard by fishing with a coat hanger in her giant
cunt, but failed miserably to pull the rabbit and
succeeded only in scraping out the contents of little
Timmy's fetal cranium (not much to begin with).
(_) _____ (_)
/O O\ Tim May
! I !
! \___/ !
\_____/
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-14 (Wed, 14 May 1997 20:04:14 +0800) - Re: Quadratic residues - _nobody@huge.cajones.com (Huge Cajones Remailer)_
+ 1997-05-15 (Thu, 15 May 1997 10:45:41 +0800) - [Re: Quadratic residues](/archive/1997/05/80b262195bc53c301d50e80870b8ebae80c0786db8a88bf0ad9551ba2bb00eac) - _Graham-John Bullers \<real@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca\>_

139
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# 1997-05-19 - Re: Information Hiding Workshop
## Header Data
From: Hal Finney \<hal@rain.org\><br>
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net<br>
Message Hash: 05e5249de1e33b56cdb24d8734635bafa3ca6403423fa77be2279dcac8dc55af<br>
Message ID: \<199705191846.LAA31650@crypt.hfinney.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-19 19:08:58 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 03:08:58 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Hal Finney <hal@rain.org>
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 03:08:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Information Hiding Workshop
Message-ID: <199705191846.LAA31650@crypt.hfinney.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
> WWW version of cfp at http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/rja14/ihws.html
>
> Details of the first (1996) information hiding workshop are at
> http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/fapp2/steganography/bibliography/workshop.html
The second URL above has abstracts from the conference, many of which sound
very interesting from a CP point of view. It's kind of strange though that
this topic encompasses both steganography and fingerprinting. The first
has connotations of freedom, while the second connotes restrictions. What
both have in common is embedding information undetectably and/or unremovably.
The conference proceedings, "Information Hiding", are currently checked out
from the local university library but I will be looking for them. There
sounds like a lot of good stuff. Check out the URL for the T. Aura paper
below; it has some statistics on actual LSB distributions in digital
images, with implications for doing truly undetectable stego.
Below are a few of the abstracts, with URL's for more info where available.
Hal
===
Stretching the Limits of Steganography
R Anderson, Info Hiding 96 pp 39--48
The author provides a brief overview of the state of the art in
steganography, and shows how public key steganography is possible ---
at least in the presence of a passive warden. The basic idea is that
if the communicating parties can manipulate at least one out of n bits
in the cover text, then the warden can not distinguish the parity of
successive blocks of n bits from random noise; accordingly these parity
bits can be used to hide cipher text in plain sight. Information theoretic
limits of general steganography are also discussed, and it is shown
that parity techniques can make many systems more efficient. Finally,
the differential effectiveness of active and passive wardens is discussed.
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/ftp/users/rja14/stegan.ps.gz
===
Computer Based Steganography: How It Works and Why Therefore Any
Restrictions on Cryptography Are Nonsense, At Best
E Franz, A Jerichow, S Möller, A Pfitzmann, I Stierand, Info Hiding 96 pp 7--21
The authors discuss a system for hiding ciphertext in the low order bits
of an ISDN telephone signal, and report measurements of the perceptibility
of various covert signal levels as a function of the cover signal and
background noise. They also discuss the meaning of perfect and pragmatic
security in the stego context. They argue that steganography is easy,
and thus restrictions on crypto will simply force criminals to use stego
which will make the law enforcement job harder.
===
Practical Invisibility in Digital Communications
T Aura, Info Hiding 96 pp 265--278
The author discusses some of the problems of information hiding,
including synchronising with a cover message which is a stream such
digital audio. Where the cover message is a block, such as a digital
picture, his technique is to use the Luby-Rackoff construction to
embed the hidden bits pseudorandomly throughout the picture. A test
implementation using SHA as the underlying primitive is reported.
http://deadlock.hut.fi/ste/ste_html.html
http://www.tcm.hut.fi/Opinnot/Tik-110.501/1995/steganography.html
===
Establishing Big Brother Using Covert Channels and Other Covert Techniques
Y Desmedt, Info Hiding 96 pp 65--71
The author discusses a number of ways in which covert technologies
that are initially deployed for relatively mundane purposes, such as
copyright protection, can end up being subverted to provide the means
of surveillance. This problem could become progressively more serious
as more and more everyday objects become endowed with some kind of
intelligence and communications capability.
===
Anonymous Addresses and Confidentiality of Location
IW Jackson, Info Hiding 96 pp 115--120
The author describes how anonymous remailers can be used to process
personal location information from active badges. The goal is that each
user should be able to control who has access to information about his
location; the mechanism is that the remailers forward this information
to a server that the user trusts to enforce his security policy. The
crypto protocols used in this system are described.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-19 (Tue, 20 May 1997 03:08:58 +0800) - Re: Information Hiding Workshop - _Hal Finney \<hal@rain.org\>_

96
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# 1997-05-21 - Re: Need some info...
## Header Data
From: "Wasim Q. Malik" \<wmalik@sdnpk.undp.org\><br>
To: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" \<dlv@bwalk.dm.com\><br>
Message Hash: 0664e9d8f985f554363937bcf752b3ba9c147a19dc4fab4180e4e2fc7779be13<br>
Message ID: \<Pine.LNX.3.95.970520165518.17284D-100000@sdnpk.undp.org\><br>
Reply To: \<qFNy7D2w165w@bwalk.dm.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-21 00:32:02 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 08:32:02 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: "Wasim Q. Malik" <wmalik@sdnpk.undp.org>
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 08:32:02 +0800
To: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" <dlv@bwalk.dm.com>
Subject: Re: Need some info...
In-Reply-To: <qFNy7D2w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.970520165518.17284D-100000@sdnpk.undp.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
On Mon, 19 May 1997, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
> "Wasim Q. Malik" <wmalik@sdnpk.undp.org> writes:
>
> > Hi.
> >
> > I'm gonna give a talk on the subject of hacking/security soon. Need your
> > help with it.
> >
> > Things that I'm gonna include are:
> > what is hacking,
> > ethics of hacking,
> > psychlogy of hacking,
> > other abstracts.
> >
> > Some technical stuff, such as hacking tools and tactics, including
> > IP spoofing,
> > packet sniffing,
> > cracker programs,
> > keyloggers,
> > progs like satan, etc.
> >
> >
> > Can you suggest some additional stuff to be included, or if you have any
> > resources (URLs, articles, progs, HOW-TOs, graphics, anything!), related
> > to any of the above topics, technical or whatever, please please do send
> > it over.
> >
> > Your suggestions will be a great help, as well as any info.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> > Wasim Q. Malik
> > Network Security Expert
> > SDNP Pakistan
> >
>
> is this going to be in NYC? Can I come and listen?
Long way from NY - in Islamabad, Pakistan to be precise!
I'll send a summary on this list.
You can suggest any related topics to be included in the discussion, or
maybe point me to some material. Will be grateful.
Wasim Q. Malik
Network Security Expert
SDNP Pakistan
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-19 (Mon, 19 May 1997 23:00:58 +0800) - [Need some info...](/archive/1997/05/75f8d3275c584a320c2fba2269afd2e0c757fae9160d9fe0ee8256f987659377) - _"Wasim Q. Malik" \<wmalik@sdnpk.undp.org\>_
+ 1997-05-19 (Tue, 20 May 1997 01:37:54 +0800) - [Re: Need some info...](/archive/1997/05/5190834a7ecc30c9f3143d3c634970eda1c125c76174add0f85323db57b3fcc2) - _dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)_
+ 1997-05-21 (Wed, 21 May 1997 08:32:02 +0800) - Re: Need some info... - _"Wasim Q. Malik" \<wmalik@sdnpk.undp.org\>_

100
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# 1997-05-16 - Kansas City.
## Header Data
From: nobody@huge.cajones.com (Huge Cajones Remailer)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 06723a196072671f0505d526c150ce50677f91d09c617a7f194cea7fc2bbe801<br>
Message ID: \<199705160432.VAA22270@fat.doobie.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-16 05:02:48 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 13:02:48 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: nobody@huge.cajones.com (Huge Cajones Remailer)
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 13:02:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Kansas City.
Message-ID: <199705160432.VAA22270@fat.doobie.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
A new scheme to broadcast the names and faces of people arrested
for trying to buy and sell sex could mushroom into a full-fledged
challenge to U.S. constitutional law.
Starting Thursday, a local government access cable television channel
will broadcast the names and faces of people arrested for
prostitution-related crimes. The first half-hour installment will feature
mugshots of alleged purveyors of sex and the customers who offered to pay
for it.
Supporters of the plan hope that such public humiliation will help
efforts to crack down on prostitution. But opponents say it violates the
principle of ``innocent until proven guilty,'' a key tenet of U.S.
criminal law.
``The city is setting out to punish with ridicule people who have not
been convicted of anything,'' said Dick Kurtenbach, executive director of
the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) of Kansas and western Missouri.
``The presumption of innocence is really turned on its head with this
scheme.''
Both supporters and opponents say that although U.S. media groups
regularly publish the names of people arrested and charged with crimes,
this may be the first time a government entity broadcasts the identities
of alleged wrongdoers.
``As far as we can tell, this is the first jurisdiction that's putting
on TV names of people arrested. This is a fairly novel approach,''
Kurtenbach said.
The plan was the brainchild of City Councilwoman Teresa Loar, who said
she hopes it will deter prostitution and the social ills -- drug use,
assault and robbery -- that commonly accompany it.
``I'm not here to persecute people. I just want them to know that they
run the risk of having their picture on the access channel if they try to
hire a prostitute,'' Loar said.
Loar said she is aware of ACLU's criticisms, but she counters by saying
that arrests are a matter of public record. She noted that a disclaimer
will say that those people pictured are innocent until found guilty in a
court of law.
When asked why the city does not air the names of people actually
convicted of prostitution, Loar explained that few arrests in prostitution
sting operations actually lead to convictions.
``Showing convictions wouldn't work -- because we don't get any. They
(the accused prostitutes and would-be customers) plead their way down and
pay a fine,'' Loar said.
Loar said she understands the idea of constitutional rights but feels
her constituents' rights are more pressing.
``As far as victims' rights go, my concern is my constituents' rights to
quality of life. Their rights are being violated every day with this
crime,'' Loar said.
Constitutional law experts acknowledged that those people whose names
and faces wind up on television could sue the city but would probably lose
any claims alleging defamation or invasion of privacy.
But Doug Linder, law professor at University of Missouri-Kansas City,
said it may be possible to claim that the broadcast constitutes a form of
punishment, which legally has to be meted out through due process of law.
Plaintiffs could sue on the grounds that they were not given due process
to defend themselves, Linder said.
``One could argue that it is a form of punishment if the police
department or the city is providing their pictures,'' Linder said. ``These
people should have the opportunity to prove their innocence. I think there
might be a real constitutional claim there.''
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-16 (Fri, 16 May 1997 13:02:48 +0800) - Kansas City. - _nobody@huge.cajones.com (Huge Cajones Remailer)_

96
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layout: default
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# 1997-05-03 - Cyberstrike
## Header Data
From: harka@nycmetro.com<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0677da25131264f73409bc06586dac45819af3fdc6839222fa9fd139b55d9c8f<br>
Message ID: \<TCPSMTP.17.5.3.0.44.48.2780269260.1625931@nycmetro.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-03 05:06:08 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 13:06:08 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: harka@nycmetro.com
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 13:06:08 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Cyberstrike
Message-ID: <TCPSMTP.17.5.3.0.44.48.2780269260.1625931@nycmetro.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
May be of interest...
In> From: cleacy@execulink.com (Chris Leacy)
In> Newsgroups: comp.infosystems.www.announce
In> Subject: SOFTWARE: CyberStrike 1.13a Ad filtering/Cookie cutting Proxy
In> Date: 30 Apr 1997 23:28:43 -0400
In> CyberStrike: Version 1.13a First Public Release
In> The first public alpha of CyberStrike was released today.
In> It can be found at <URL:http://www.execulink.com/~cleacy>
In> CyberStrike is a banner ad filtering, cookie cutting, HTTP
In> header overriding proxy of a program.
In> Whether for privacy concerns, or just to speed up your
In> browsing, CyberStrike performs admirably well at it's task.
In> Chris
Ciao
Harka
/*************************************************************/
/* This user supports FREE SPEECH ONLINE ...more info at */
/* and PRIVATE ONLINE COMMUNICATIONS! -> http://www.epic.org */
/* E-mail: harka(at)nycmetro.com (PGP-encrypted mail pref'd) */
/* PGP public key available upon request. [KeyID: 04174301] */
/* F-print: FD E4 F8 6D C1 6A 44 F5 28 9C 40 6E B8 94 78 E8 */
/*<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*/
/* May there be peace in this world, may all anger dissolve */
/* and may all living beings find the way to happiness... */
/*************************************************************/
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2
iQEVAgUBM2mQeTltEBIEF0MBAQEbUAf+NQOMPrml38ijLwv8MIPSkTUbtbNQebJy
R4LaeYhXI6Z/OzJdX6AQC2GisxMyPiz3QWWBoAqxGkunWDHbQzDfZVWW6nZa4zLY
do2r11CEWFPba1igX+8JtCm9gd11S8Zlff5Pw5eTYOMcsVSHf6Z/+iAT5aqnIdcb
YU26JswL1MofhWlNhbNXYc/9wQ3uUn1hU3lin+Lujfa5+cXXlTyfz6eFcJlwD7ZY
KdK7UfPMuCeZnUX/VJqBdJ1idXfC5YOlwVMBNIyQK7PgCy59FvP5CiiXhpui7uSj
WijKBSMUsz2HuQIuQJf6zvW/bi5DGWr6PerTXnuVaUkjNHr4Fp13Mg==
=5TtH
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
If encryption is outlawed, only outlaws will have encryption...
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-03 (Sat, 3 May 1997 13:06:08 +0800) - Cyberstrike - _harka@nycmetro.com_

84
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-28 - Re: The lights went out in Georgia
## Header Data
From: Tim May \<tcmay@got.net\><br>
To: "Robert A. Costner" \<pooh@efga.org\><br>
Message Hash: 0689a827439dee024befa3a73a000a90e96ee3c68c7e7aadd495a6fc497fbc29<br>
Message ID: \<v03102802afb15f7c9920@[207.167.93.63]\><br>
Reply To: \<v03102801afb0f4da8b9f@[207.167.93.63]\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-28 05:02:07 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:02:07 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Tim May <tcmay@got.net>
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 13:02:07 +0800
To: "Robert A. Costner" <pooh@efga.org>
Subject: Re: The lights went out in Georgia
In-Reply-To: <v03102801afb0f4da8b9f@[207.167.93.63]>
Message-ID: <v03102802afb15f7c9920@[207.167.93.63]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 5:15 PM -0400 5/27/97, Robert A. Costner wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>At 01:36 PM 5/27/97 -0700, Tim May wrote:
>>But as Robert knows more directly than I, Georgia also has the "anonymity
>>is a crime" laws on the books
>...
>>So, what will happen if people, entities, remailers, pseudonyms, etc..
>>submit keys to this EFF-Georgia repository without providing SS number,
>>passport, mother's maiden name, etc.?
>
>If Tim read the article he quoted from, he will notice that EFGA has sued the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I read the whole thing, and several other articles. I even indicated I knew
you knew a lot about this case when I specifically said "But as Robert
knows more directly than I.."
Fucking A, what more do you want?
My point had nothing to do with whether you or EF-GA was involved in a suit
to overturn the law. If the law is still in force, whether EF-GA is
currently suing has nothing to do with my point about enforcement of the
law, and penalties for violation.
--Tim May
There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-27 (Wed, 28 May 1997 03:56:57 +0800) - [PGP 5.0 keyserver](/archive/1997/05/227a343aa9f82ca51c9a307ad619c422d0928418a1cac6f188965d91558c127f) - _"Robert A. Costner" \<pooh@efga.org\>_
+ 1997-05-27 (Wed, 28 May 1997 04:54:19 +0800) - [The lights went out in Georgia](/archive/1997/05/8227cf789bff709350ed412bbf45010b48ab44027a8f0809392a2b3ab00745eb) - _Tim May \<tcmay@got.net\>_
+ 1997-05-28 (Wed, 28 May 1997 13:02:07 +0800) - Re: The lights went out in Georgia - _Tim May \<tcmay@got.net\>_

82
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# 1997-05-15 - Re: Difference in terms
## Header Data
From: Tim May \<tcmay@got.net\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 069b0977b0619c2a90e41a099b70e56cd6af034a56978403db91f5b45e7faaf8<br>
Message ID: \<v03007802afa0f44544cb@[207.167.93.63]\><br>
Reply To: \<199705091300.OAA02217@server.test.net\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-15 16:33:43 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 00:33:43 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Tim May <tcmay@got.net>
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 00:33:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Difference in terms
In-Reply-To: <199705091300.OAA02217@server.test.net>
Message-ID: <v03007802afa0f44544cb@[207.167.93.63]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 10:43 PM -0800 5/14/97, Bill Stewart wrote:
>>Lutz Donnerhacke <lutz@as-node.jena.thur.de>writes:
>>> key recovery is if I can get my key
>>> key escrow is if you can get my key
>
>"Key Escrow" was "We want your keys".
>"Software Key Escrow" was "OK, Clipper was a loser, but we want your keys"
>"Public Key Infrastructure" was "Here, have some keys"
>"Trusted Third Party" was "Hey, trust us, we want your keys"
>"Key Recovery" is "OK, that didn't work, but we still want your keys"
>
SAFE is "All Americans deserve strong security and unlimited strength
crypto, but we still want your keys."
"Pro-CODE is about the right to have and export military-grade crypto, but
we still want your keys."
Or as Congressman J. Getalong put it, "SAFE is a step toward a future of
security and prosperity. The legitimate needs of law enforcement are being
met by this bill. We are good listeners of the NSA, and the NSA is a good
listener to all of us. And I do mean all of us. All Americans will prosper
from this new working relationship with Big Brother. War is Peace and
SAFEty is liberty,"
--Emmanuel Goldstein
There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-15 (Fri, 16 May 1997 00:33:43 +0800) - Re: Difference in terms - _Tim May \<tcmay@got.net\>_

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# 1997-05-14 - Rwanda and "anarchy"
## Header Data
From: Rich Graves \<rcgraves@disposable.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net<br>
Message Hash: 06ac24eb2e614d1aad27f715b74ecebb5212a8d22a29400ed39b7be186827671<br>
Message ID: \<337A3314.1B990EE4@disposable.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-14 22:03:26 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 06:03:26 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Rich Graves <rcgraves@disposable.com>
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 06:03:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Rwanda and "anarchy"
Message-ID: <337A3314.1B990EE4@disposable.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Kent Crispin wrote:
> On Tue, May 13, 1997 at 08:21:13PM -0800, Tim May wrote:
> > At 6:34 PM -0800 5/13/97, Kent Crispin wrote:
> >
> > >First of all, it neglects to consider that governments may have
> > >prevented more murders than they caused. This is unknowable, since
> > >we don't have any worthwhile control cases. (I suppose we
> > >might examine a state of anarchic chaos (eg Rawanda) and compare the
> > >percentage of murders...but such cases are symptoms of other human
> > >ills, and cannot be used as a meaningful comparison, I believe.)
> >
> > Rwanda (or Ruwanda, or...) is a _very_ poor example to pick, as this was
> > not any kind of anarchy such as any of us have ever advocated. Rather,
> > Rwanda was a near-textbook example of one tribal faction (Hutus or
> > Tutsis) coming to power and inititiating a pogrom against the rival
> > faction (Tutsis or Hutus).
> >
> > Calling this an "anarchy" is comparable to calling the pogrom by the
> > Third Reich against Jews, gypsies, cripples, and others an example of
> > anarchy.
>
> Nonsense.
>
> "anarchy n. the absence of government or control, resulting in
> lawlessness. 2. disorder, confusion" -- Oxford American Dictionary
>
> Which part of that would you say didn't apply to Rwanda?
I would say "none." Tim is essentially correct. Ironically, we know he's
correct thanks to the United Nations and Judge Goldstein's International
Criminal Tribunal, which Tim would oppose. (The answer to bad government
is more government?)
Jean-Marie Higiro was Rwanda's Minister of Telecommunications. He saw
the radio turn into a tool of totalitarian propaganda. The killings were
encouraged and organized by the government. He was there.
Lindsey Hilsum was the only English-speaking reporter in Rwanda when the
killings started. She described the situation as "anarchy" because she
did not understand the language or the political situation. She later
retracted that story, and spent several more months in Rwanda and
Burundi
documenting what really happened. She eventually testified before the
ICT
on what she saw. I think she's a really cool person.
Raymond Bonner joined Lindsey in Rwanda later. You might recognize his
name -- he's the guy who was fired by the New York Times because the
Reagan Administration didn't like his reporting on human rights
violations
in El Salvador.
Gilles Peress is a French photojournalist who documented the genocide in
Rwanda both for himself and for the ICT.
I met these folks and browsed the relevant documentation, recordings,
and
photos on April 11th. I believe them when they say it was planned.
Blaming it on "evil government," though, is ludicrous. There was quite a
lot more going on.
If you want to look at anarchic chaos, try, maybe, Albania, or Los
Angeles
after the Rodney King verdict. But even in those cases, the violence had
specific targets for specific reasons. It wasn't unstructured anarchy,
and it didn't last long. For all the press, there were few deaths in
either case.
> In fact, the correlation between anarchy and war is very strong, for
> obvious reasons. Perhaps that is why most intelligent people don't
> consider anarchy a desirable state of affairs.
There is no such thing as anarchy, and there never will be.
-rich
http://www.stanford.edu/~llurch/
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-14 (Thu, 15 May 1997 06:03:26 +0800) - Rwanda and "anarchy" - _Rich Graves \<rcgraves@disposable.com\>_
+ 1997-05-15 (Thu, 15 May 1997 08:33:26 +0800) - [Re: Rwanda and "anarchy"](/archive/1997/05/89eeef82823ac2d3ba771597714dbb029135222d0e1b6ba812223c9825c4420e) - _Kent Crispin \<kent@songbird.com\>_

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# 1997-05-20 - Re: Public Key Break Paper
## Header Data
From: Hal Finney \<hal@rain.org\><br>
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net<br>
Message Hash: 06e8ce325cfb5dc0e88b89c9355c960b15440c15c5e99156147f3debd4b59894<br>
Message ID: \<199705201532.IAA08042@crypt.hfinney.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-20 15:57:17 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 23:57:17 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Hal Finney <hal@rain.org>
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 23:57:17 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Public Key Break Paper
Message-ID: <199705201532.IAA08042@crypt.hfinney.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Peter Gutmann, pgut001@cs.auckland.ac.nz, writes:
> (I had another look at the unbalanced RSA proposal in the Autumn 1995
> CryptoBytes as I was trying to find the above article, did anyone ever do
> anything with unbalanced RSA or was it just left as a curiosity?).
The unbalanced RSA idea, by Shamir, was to choose primes p and q with p
considerably less than q, e.g. p = 500 bits, q = 4500 bits. With numbers
of this size, the difficulty of factoring a 5000 bit n = pq is still just
as hard as if p and q were both about 2500 bits. Then, you only encrypt
numbers < p, and it turns out that you can do the decryption mod p rather
than mod n, so decrypt is much, much faster than for a conventional 5000
bit modulus.
There have been some attacks on this. The main limitation is that the
encrypted number is supposed to be < p. There is a chosen-cyphertext
attack, taking an x a few bits larger than p, encrypting it, and asking
for the resulting decryption. This produces x mod p, which combined
with x can be used to find p.
Another attack along these lines is to guess x about the size of p, send
a legitimate message based on it, then watch the receiver's behavior to
try to determine whether the message had decrypted correctly. If x < p
it would decrypt OK, otherwise it would decrypt to garbage. Repeat this
to narrow down an interval containing p.
I believe these were presented by Quisquater at the Crypto 96 rump session,
although I think he was referring in part to some attacks which had already
been discovered.
Hal
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-20 (Tue, 20 May 1997 23:57:17 +0800) - Re: Public Key Break Paper - _Hal Finney \<hal@rain.org\>_

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# 1997-05-14 - Re: 96 Wiretap Report
## Header Data
From: John Young \<jya@pipeline.com\><br>
To: "William H. Geiger III" \<whgiii@amaranth.com\><br>
Message Hash: 06ea08b436ba76dc7e14b62bfdcbb912a4d7438bba82f379d0050fe240fac3d9<br>
Message ID: \<1.5.4.32.19970514024518.00816d50@pop.pipeline.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-14 03:10:10 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 11:10:10 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: John Young <jya@pipeline.com>
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 11:10:10 +0800
To: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii@amaranth.com>
Subject: Re: 96 Wiretap Report
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970514024518.00816d50@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
William Geiger wrote:
>I noticed in the summary report that e-mail intercepts were used. Is there
>more detailed information on this? I would be interested to know how
>involved the govenment is becoming involved in this area. Of great interest
>would be the location and means used to do such taps.
We could find no listing of E-mail intercepts in the
tables, so it's not clear what the summary was
referring to beyond stating that "electronic mail"
was included under "electronic intercepts" along
with digital display pagers, voice pagers, and
cellular phones.
The tables list intercept information under two categories:
Type and Place.
Type:
1. Phone Wire
2. Micro-Eavesdrop
3. Electronic
4. Not Reported
Place:
1. Single-Family Dwelling
2. Apartment
3. Multiple Dwelling
4. Business
5. Roving
6. Other
"Other" is further listed as:
Automobile/Van
Briefcase
Cellular/Mobile Phone
Cemetary
Closed Circuit TV
Container
Digital Display Pager
Facsimile
Garage/Parking Lot
Hospital
Hotel Room/Motel Room
Jail
Mobile Home/Trailer
Package/Cargo
Pay Phone
Pen Register
Prison
Social Club
Storage
Telefax
Courthouse
Street
Computer
We found only a single instance where the "place" was
a computer.
BTW, the 193-page printed report is available free from
the Administrative Office of the U.S. Courts.
Telephone: 202-273-2156.
Web site: http://www.uscourts.gov/
Folks there were quite helpful, so it's possible that you
might get E-mail intercept details from them by
requesting it. If you do, let us know, quick!
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-14 (Wed, 14 May 1997 11:10:10 +0800) - Re: 96 Wiretap Report - _John Young \<jya@pipeline.com\>_

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# 1997-05-27 - No Subject
## Header Data
From: \<00043.an@edtec.com\><br>
To: \<cypherpunks@algebra.com\><br>
Message Hash: 070e316787b7df86c27e7028f4df77e644e3ae7b41fddb34e3720c57483544ee<br>
Message ID: \<9705271451.AA08876@future.atlcom.net\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-27 15:23:34 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 23:23:34 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: <00043.an@edtec.com>
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 23:23:34 +0800
To: <cypherpunks@algebra.com>
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <9705271451.AA08876@future.atlcom.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Microsoft has been involved for some time with smart-card keyboard readers,
and I think some of my cohorts have seen the prototypes (I have not).
I figure strong authentication will become part of the the platform within
somewhere
between 6 and 18 months. With Intel putting crypto on the main board / CPU,
this poses very important issues --- it does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling.
Tim May writes:
> Could hardware-based chips be coming? At a recent meeting, John Markoff
> asked me if I'd heard anything about Intel's rumored contract to buy 20
> million (yes, 20 _million_) keyboards with crypto features built in. I had
> not heard this rumor.
>
> (Since then, though, there have been rumblings that Intel is preparing to
> offer such keyboards, possibly with "user authentication" features (don't
> know what kind). This might, speculating here, be linked with the Intel-HP
> (and maybe Verifone, which HP is buying?) key recovery work. Conceivably, a
> plan to sell a large user base (20 million?) on a hardware/keyboard-based
> "secure commerce" solution.)
I haven't heard anything about this rumor. However, if you look at
the new USB chips being built by Cypress et al, it's not hard to
imagine keyboards with ISO smart card readers built in. The USB chips
contain a simple RISC core, lots of I/O pins and something like 4-8KB
of FLASH or OTP memory. The incremental cost is a slot with 6
contacts for the smart card. Unlike PCMCIA, the ISO smart cards are
cheap to build and easy to interface to. Schmlumberger is currently
promoting it's "CryptoFlex" card which can do 1024-bit RSA sigs as
well as triple-DES. I believe that it can do a 1024-bit sig in
something like 20 ms.
Eric
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-27 (Tue, 27 May 1997 23:23:34 +0800) - No Subject - _\<00043.an@edtec.com\>_

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# 1997-05-14 - Re: "The policeman inside"
## Header Data
From: Tim May \<tcmay@got.net\><br>
To: "Ross Wright" \<cypherpunks@algebra.com<br>
Message Hash: 072a081f68556b255e9122ee3c083b7247c9a69ae989b533a81ffe9bbfaae511<br>
Message ID: \<v03007804af9ecee3ec1d@[207.167.93.63]\><br>
Reply To: \<199705140042.RAA21706@adnetsol.adnetsol.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-14 01:36:34 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 09:36:34 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Tim May <tcmay@got.net>
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 09:36:34 +0800
To: "Ross Wright" <cypherpunks@algebra.com
Subject: Re: "The policeman inside"
In-Reply-To: <199705140042.RAA21706@adnetsol.adnetsol.com>
Message-ID: <v03007804af9ecee3ec1d@[207.167.93.63]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 4:41 PM -0800 5/13/97, Ross Wright wrote:
>On or About 13 May 97 at 9:19, Tim May wrote:
>> So is crypto information. So is saying Congressmen are vermin who
>> need to be taken out and shot.
>
>I think you can say "taken out and Spanked Naked In The Streets" I
>don't think you can advocate shooting them... Correct me if I'm
>wrong.
This has of course come up several times. The usual legal scholars can cite
chapter and verse, but it is of course perfectly legal to say that all
lawyers ought to be killed, that all politicians are scum and should be
killed, etc. It is even legal to say that all honkies ought to be offed.
And legal to express the view that the world would be a better place if
O.J. Simpson is someday killed by some brave soul.
What may be illegal--and even this if iffy--is to "incite" a _particular_
act of violence, such as urging a mob to lynch a prisoner, or perhaps
running an AP betting pool. Legal experts can discuss relevant cases here.
(Plus, the expression "taken out and shot" has cultural context implying it
is not a specific course of action being proposed. In a similar vein,
arguing that it would be a good thing if D.C. were to vanish in a puff of
plutonium smoke, or even that "D.C. ought to be nuked," these are certainly
protected First Amendment sentiments.)
What is certainly protected, or at least has been protected for centuries,
is the expression of opinions that somebody needs killing. It may be tacky
to wish death on someone (but not always tacky), but what specific crime is
being committed?
As is well known, general advocacy of violence is protected speech (modulo
some special cases that legal experts can cite).
There is a specific exception: advocating the violent overthrow of the U.S.
government. One can advocate violence, one can advocate the (non-violent)
overthrow of the government (which we call "elections"), but one cannot
advocate the violent overthrow of the government.
(Again, legal beagles can discuss cases. Clearly many have advocated the
violent overthrow of the gubment, as the Black Panthers and Weathermen did,
and yet this was not what they were charged with. So, while technically
illegal, rarely prosecuted.)
--Tim May
There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-14 (Wed, 14 May 1997 09:20:21 +0800) - [Re: "The policeman inside"](/archive/1997/05/46f21b64d7c096e3600c50e5422aa801d151c8edfea43eeeae6caec98df46bf3) - _"Ross Wright" \<rwright@adnetsol.com\>_
+ 1997-05-14 (Wed, 14 May 1997 09:36:34 +0800) - Re: "The policeman inside" - _Tim May \<tcmay@got.net\>_

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# 1997-05-05 - Re: Rejecting Dialog with Government Vermin
## Header Data
From: jimbell@pacifier.com (Jim Bell)<br>
To: Kent Crispin \<cypherpunks@cyberpass.net<br>
Message Hash: 07448362daccf0d6866a399101004b31fe8a3de57ef35bdbbbf5166efa1337e8<br>
Message ID: \<199705051536.IAA12717@mail.pacifier.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-05 16:11:54 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 00:11:54 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: jimbell@pacifier.com (Jim Bell)
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 00:11:54 +0800
To: Kent Crispin <cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Rejecting Dialog with Government Vermin
Message-ID: <199705051536.IAA12717@mail.pacifier.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 08:50 5/02/97 -0700, Kent Crispin wrote:
>On Fri, May 02, 1997 at 12:34:19AM -0800, Jim Bell wrote:
>The basic point, really, is that organizational complexity grows
>with the size of the organization, at a greater than linear rate.
>This is because organizational complexity is a function of
>interactions between members of the organization, which is at least
>n-squared. (However, when you consider that alliances form and can
>interact, the true complexity grows at a much faster rate.)
You seem to be taken with making all sorts of bare, unsupported claims,
obviously with the intention of explaining (for example) away what was
apparently an INTENTIONAL increase in the size of Federal government between
(say) 1932 and today.
To read your paragraph above, its increase in size was simply the
unavoidable consequence of nature's laws or something akin to it. Maybe a
product of number theory, or the Fibbonacci sequence, exponential increase,
or something like that. Which would, if true, remove just about all the
blame from those who were in control of the situation.
BULLSHIT!
Chances are good that at least 75% of the size of the US Federal government
today is due to spending that wasn't considered the proper Constitutional
function of the government before 1930, and certainly not before 1900 or so.
(Large peacetime military, Socialist Insecurity, Welfare, Medicare,
Medicaid, interest on national debt caused by deficit spending that occurred
due to funding these previous atrocities, etc.)
>> But NONE of this is truly needed. I have a solution to that problem.
>
>Jim, have you considered the interaction between religious beliefs and
>AP? You apparently don't have direct knowledge of this, but after a
>certain level of economic security has been reached economics becomes
>a much less important as a motivator [Maslow].
Other people have blown this claim away, so I don't think I need bounce the
rubble further. However, I wonder why you think that people will not resent
the theft of their property simply because they've reached "a certain level
of economic security."?
Frankly, it sounds like yet another of your "let's justify the government
through specious arguments" exercises.
Jim Bell
jimbell@pacifier.com
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-05 (Tue, 6 May 1997 00:11:54 +0800) - Re: Rejecting Dialog with Government Vermin - _jimbell@pacifier.com (Jim Bell)_
+ 1997-05-05 (Tue, 6 May 1997 06:17:42 +0800) - [Re: Rejecting Dialog with Government Vermin](/archive/1997/05/024e68ccab9a9279b1c0d7d97187bb09e8d467b48178187a9e6eb62317d1c5c8) - _Kent Crispin \<kent@songbird.com\>_

154
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layout: default
---
# 1997-05-27 - DCSB: The Internet as an Auction-Pricing Incubator
## Header Data
From: Robert Hettinga \<rah@shipwright.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 077e3925420acba545eaef81ef053fb3a7776376cdb700ab5e6e758aada909e0<br>
Message ID: \<v0302093bafb090c90e59@[139.167.130.246]\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-27 14:27:14 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 22:27:14 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Robert Hettinga <rah@shipwright.com>
Date: Tue, 27 May 1997 22:27:14 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: DCSB: The Internet as an Auction-Pricing Incubator
Message-ID: <v0302093bafb090c90e59@[139.167.130.246]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
The Digital Commerce Society of Boston
Presents
Fred Hapgood
"The Internet as an Auction-Pricing Incubator"
Tuesday, June 3, 1997
12 - 2 PM
The Downtown Harvard Club of Boston
One Federal Street, Boston, MA
Price, Including Luncheon: $30.00
The low transaction costs and interactivity of the internet are proving a
highly favorable incubator for auction pricing. In April Yahoo reported
60+ sites supporting online auctions with more appearing every day. The
largest of these hosted more than 50,000 individual auctions (not
individual items) simultaneously and was growing at 25% a month. Online
auction sites appear to be the only indigenous internet service that is a)
generating profits of any scale and b) respectable. Fred will describe how
these auctions work, some of their varieties, what they are selling,
analyze the online auction site as a business model, review recent
developments, and weigh the odds that online auctions will be associated
with changes of interest in the structure of the economy and the culture.
Fred Hapgood, <http://www.pobox.com/~hapgood>, is a free-lance writer based
in Boston. While he often writes about aspects of electronic commerce, that
being where the market is, he promises creditworthy clients an attentive
and positive hearing to any proposition legal in at least one jurisdiction.
Last year he spoke before the DCSB on franchising and the internet.
This meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of Boston will be held on
Tuesday, June 3, 1997, from 12pm - 2pm at the Downtown Branch of the
Harvard Club of Boston, on One Federal Street. The price for lunch is
$30.00. This price includes lunch, room rental, various A/V hardware, and
the speaker's lunch. ;-). The Harvard Club *does* have dress code: jackets
and ties for men (and no sneakers or jeans), and "appropriate business
attire" (whatever that means), for women. Fair warning: since we purchase
these luncheons in advance, we will be unable to refund the price of your
lunch if the Club finds you in violation of the dress code.
We will attempt to record this meeting and put it on the web in RealAudio
format at some future date
We need to receive a company check, or money order, (or, if we *really*
know you, a personal check) payable to "The Harvard Club of Boston", by
Saturday, May 31, or you won't be on the list for lunch. Checks
payable to anyone else but The Harvard Club of Boston will have to be
sent back.
Checks should be sent to Robert Hettinga, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston,
Massachusetts, 02131. Again, they *must* be made payable to "The Harvard
Club of Boston", in the amount of $30.00.
If anyone has questions, or has a problem with these arrangements (We've
had to work with glacial A/P departments more than once, for instance),
please let us know via e-mail, and we'll see if we can work something
out.
Upcoming speakers for DCSB are:
July Win Treese TLS, Digital Commerce, and Export Issues
August Duncan Frissell MarketEarth
September Christof Paar Elliptic Curve Cryptography
October Peter Cassidy Military Fiat and Digital Commerce
November Carl Ellison Identity and Certification for Electronic
Commerce
We are actively searching for future speakers. If you are in Boston on
the first Tuesday of the month, and you would like to make a
presentation to the Society, please send e-mail to the DCSB Program
Commmittee, care of Robert Hettinga, <mailto: rah@shipwright.com> .
For more information about the Digital Commerce Society of Boston, send
"info dcsb" in the body of a message to <mailto: majordomo@ai.mit.edu> .
If you want to subscribe to the DCSB e-mail list, send "subscribe dcsb" in
the body of a message to <mailto: majordomo@ai.mit.edu> .
We look forward to seeing you there!
Cheers,
Robert Hettinga
Moderator,
The Digital Commerce Society of Boston
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 5.0 beta
Charset: noconv
iQEVAwUBM34DRMUCGwxmWcHhAQEgRwf+NMnjays51ipVI2DUkN7641PAGn21PWLI
CdvLO8TbbXJu6KNcjw/E3fsz+j+ykiYZJl4liiNI7XUC3aB58QbKIHMouM09jIjA
VrPaqGP5EL9DjGh+ZHl7qm/SuuP8a6tAfEWkxCHb6Z+X0ezWipziD+3S4PEe5wcd
LLW7SRMvWxzVjDKfeokCZL3e43o4xfzNDPBStxVGvONC73A+FMDLWRFxcCJ1o4iX
n9fevJuymUf1itZps2ZsK6eU1dXbcXgaX8326OkjBHvGg3IIF0lARKRpPlMVCWxG
BCwpKsP/vkzw97+QuhOJJIg5fq0uXqXAADDOwS6SSwt3oCp6cuBcog==
=DaZq
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-27 (Tue, 27 May 1997 22:27:14 +0800) - DCSB: The Internet as an Auction-Pricing Incubator - _Robert Hettinga \<rah@shipwright.com\>_

71
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-19 - Re: referers and W3 (fwd)
## Header Data
From: Eric Murray \<ericm@lne.com\><br>
To: hal@rain.org<br>
Message Hash: 07ed401233ef26443e2401461884b61a4c845981983e47aeed85bd4b38f69b8c<br>
Message ID: \<199705190108.SAA12788@slack.lne.com\><br>
Reply To: \<199705182021.NAA04042@crypt.hfinney.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-19 01:22:13 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 09:22:13 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Eric Murray <ericm@lne.com>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 09:22:13 +0800
To: hal@rain.org
Subject: Re: referers and W3 (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199705182021.NAA04042@crypt.hfinney.com>
Message-ID: <199705190108.SAA12788@slack.lne.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Hal Finney writes:
> I use Eric Murray's fine "cookie jar" privacy program when I am web
> browsing on my Linux system (http://www.lne.com/ericm/cookie_jar/).
Note that it'll work with a non-UNIX browser just fine. You do need to
have access to a Unix host to run the cookie jar program itself, but you
can tell your Windoze browser to use cookie jar as a proxy.... I run my Mac's
browser through it.
> It blocks cookies and advertisements via a very flexible config file
> mechanism. It also eliminates other privacy-revealing outgoing data,
> including Referer, and could be easily modified to play all kinds of
> games with Referer for the adventurous.
Sounds like an idea to go along with the User-Agent spoofing I added recently.
What would make sense to use, other than sending
"http://this/is/a/bogus/referrer/sent/to/mess/up/your/stats"?
How about sending the current URL as Referrer?
--
Eric Murray ericm@lne.com Privacy through technology!
Network security and encryption consulting. PGP keyid:E03F65E5
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-18 (Mon, 19 May 1997 04:42:03 +0800) - [Re: referers and W3 (fwd)](/archive/1997/05/1a02c3d0772774f1d45d49dfb226c2560a5238b3b73f019daddd34907d00ca88) - _Hal Finney \<hal@rain.org\>_
+ 1997-05-19 (Mon, 19 May 1997 09:22:13 +0800) - Re: referers and W3 (fwd) - _Eric Murray \<ericm@lne.com\>_

143
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@@ -0,0 +1,143 @@
---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-23 - index.html
## Header Data
From: Jim Choate \<ravage@einstein.ssz.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com<br>
Message Hash: 07faffad28e83ea6a54aad6a0425ccb9b2dc82e008bc2cb24e0ba98958ec46e4<br>
Message ID: \<199705230231.VAA18388@einstein.ssz.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-23 03:19:10 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 11:19:10 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Jim Choate <ravage@einstein.ssz.com>
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 11:19:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@einstein.ssz.com
Subject: index.html
Message-ID: <199705230231.VAA18388@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
CNN logo
US navbar
Infoseek/Big Yellow
Pathfinder/Warner Bros
Main banner Samsung. Meeting the challenge.
rule
WOMAN TRIES TO SELL KIDNEY TO PAY BILL
sparrow May 22, 1997
Web posted at: 10:59 a.m. EDT (1459 GMT)
ST. PETERSBURG, Florida (CNN) -- Faced with a $25,000 bill for gall
bladder surgery, a Florida woman placed an ad in a local newspaper
to sell her kidney to cover the surgery. But there's a big problem
with her plan: It's illegal.
"KIDNEY Runs good, Taking offers. $30,000/obo," read the
advertisement in this week's St. Petersburg Times.
Ruth Sparrow isn't joking either. She has been drinking buckets of
water for more than two months to clean out the organ, prepping it
for donation.
"I'm not doing it for a profit," she told CNN-affiliate WTVT in
Tampa. "You're trading a damn kidney for a gall bladder." icon
(85K/6 sec. AIFF or WAV sound)
Sparrow, a 55-year-old nurse, said she told doctors before the
surgery that she would be unable to pay the bill and offered to pay
the bill by donating her kidney. The offer was refused, she said.
movie icon (331K/28 sec. QuickTime movie)
Federal and state laws prohibit anyone from offering buy or sell a
human organ or tissue. In Florida, the offense is a second-degree
felony. medical.center
Jean Layne of Lifelink of Florida, a tissue recovery organization,
explained that the reason for the law is "not to disadvantage
families who do not have a lot of money, allowing everyone equal
access to transplantation."
Bayfront Medical Center, where the gall bladder surgery was
performed, was stunned when notified of the ad. It said Sparrow owes
about $17,000 on the bill and that the medical center is "trying to
get her qualified for some type of assistance."
Sparrow dropped her medical insurance four years ago because she
could not afford the $4,000-a-year premium.
She said it's unfair that taxpayers pick up the tab for criminals'
medical expenses, while she could get punished for her tactic. icon
(145K/12 sec. AIFF or WAV sound) She also emphasized that she did
not know it was illegal to run the ad.
"I just want to live in my own little hovel and pay my bills like
everybody else," she said. "I don't want to owe anybody."
From CNN-affiliate WTVT Reporter Stan Jayson
rule CNN Plus
* Consumer News - Fitness and Health
Related story:
* Florida man offers to 'lease' a kidney - April 2, 1997
Related sites:
Note: Pages will open in a new browser window
* The St. Petersburg Times
* Bayfront Medical Center
* United Network for Organ Sharing Transplantation Information Site
* American Share Foundation - organ donation and transplantation
information
External sites are not endorsed by CNN Interactive. rule Message
Boards
Sound off on our message boards
Tell us what you think!
You said it... [INLINE] Samsung. Meeting the challenge. rule
To the top
(c) 1997 Cable News Network, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
Terms under which this service is provided to you.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-23 (Fri, 23 May 1997 11:19:10 +0800) - index.html - _Jim Choate \<ravage@einstein.ssz.com\>_

98
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-16 - Re: SAFE vote and cutting crypto-deals, report from House Judiciary
## Header Data
From: Declan McCullagh \<declan@vorlon.mit.edu\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0805f25531a1dc0df69fd79cfb1f7e31bdb432dae8b8113368a04b9900968a5a<br>
Message ID: \<Pine.LNX.3.95.970516012132.30930A-100000@vorlon.mit.edu\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-16 05:46:00 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 13:46:00 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Declan McCullagh <declan@vorlon.mit.edu>
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 13:46:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: SAFE vote and cutting crypto-deals, report from House Judiciary
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.970516012132.30930A-100000@vorlon.mit.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:51:28 -0700
From: Lee Tien <tien@well.com>
To: fight-censorship@vorlon.mit.edu
Subject: Re: SAFE vote and cutting crypto-deals, report from House Judiciary
Thanks to Barry Steinhardt for his comments, especially his saying that:
>The language was an improvement , but it doesn't belong in the bill and we
>are still lobbying to have the criminalization provision removed.
>
>All of us in the cyber liberties community need to watch this legislation
>very carefully. It could easily get much worse as a "compromise" is reached
>with the Administration. In the end,the bill could be laden with amendments
>on issues like key recovery that defeat our purpose of making strong and
>secure encryption generally available.
>
>At some point, we may need to say that no bill is better than a bad bill.
This is a crucial point. This isn't an exercise in back-patting, in doling
out kudos. This struggle engages a stubborn and devious foe.
I also thought Michael Sims was on target in pointing out that Safdar's
criticism of Declan were basically arguments from authority. Speaking only
for myself, it's not enough to look at who's for and who's against.
The Administration likes to say, trust us, we know what's best. We should
say the emperor has no clothes if it's true.
Some supporters of these bills seem to respond to substantive criticisms
with comments about loyalty or solidarity. What's wrong with robust, open
debate about substance?
I don't assume that those on the "inside" have better knowledge or
understanding of the law. If they're going to defend the bills on the
merits, they should explain the merits.
I don't assume that everyone agrees on what the bills should say. Some
might think that some "willful use of encryption" provision is consistent
with civil liberties. (Personally, I don't and I'm glad to see Barry feels
the same way.) But my point is, let's be clear whether we're disagreeing
about values or political tactics. Is a compromise acceptable because, all
things considered, it's the best we can do, or because we actually agree on
the merits?
Finally, I do believe that the insiders better understand the political
need for compromise. But I'd like to be educated about it. In particular,
I'd like to understand why the President wouldn't veto any bill he doesn't
completely agree with. Unless there's something veto-proof out there, or
some other bargaining chip, why wouldn't he veto it?
Lee
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-16 (Fri, 16 May 1997 13:46:00 +0800) - Re: SAFE vote and cutting crypto-deals, report from House Judiciary - _Declan McCullagh \<declan@vorlon.mit.edu\>_

90
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@@ -0,0 +1,90 @@
---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-09 - FREE REFERRAL SERVICE
## Header Data
From: MOBILE.CONNECTION@texoma.net<br>
To: CONCERNED@mail.texoma.net<br>
Message Hash: 0881876f970c34dd917673f41b0750735d7a7c25da4c3165130764e0db90cf5c<br>
Message ID: \<199705092302.SAA26162@mail.texoma.net\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-09 23:04:08 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 16:04:08 -0700 (PDT)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: MOBILE.CONNECTION@texoma.net
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 16:04:08 -0700 (PDT)
To: CONCERNED@mail.texoma.net
Subject: FREE REFERRAL SERVICE
Message-ID: <199705092302.SAA26162@mail.texoma.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
HELLO!!
THIS IS TO INFORM YOU THAT THERE IS NOW A FREE DOCTORS REFERRAL SITE FOR ALL CONCERNED PEOPLE LOOKING FOR QUAILIFIED DOCTORS,IN ALL 50 STATES.
PLEASE LET YOUR DOCTORS KNOW THAT THIS SITE IS AVAILABLE, IF HIS NAME IS NOT YET POSTED, KINDLY PASS ON HIS INFORMATION SO WE CAN POST IT.
DOCTOR'S INFORMATION REQUESTED:
NAME
TYPE OF SPECIALIST
ADDRESS
TELEPHONE
STATE AND TOWN
THE SITE IIS LOCATED AT: http://www.mobilconnect.net/
THANK AGAIN
JOHN
.........................................................................................................................................................
ALSO AT MY SITE ARE THE LINKS TO THE GREATEST CONNECTIONS TO ALL OF THE BEST SEARCH SITES THOUGHOUT THE WORLD.
FOR PERSONS WHO WOULD LIKE FREE E-MAIL ADDRESSES, HERE ARE 2 THOUSAND THAT I COLLECTED RECENTLY,(the e-mail address are changed often)
FREE, ALSO IS THE GREATEST BULK E-MAILER DEMO PROGRAM ..MY SPECIAL PRICE IS $100.00 ,(program only) , SO, DOWN LOAD THE DEMO AND AGREE WITH ME,, IT IS EQUAL TO THE BEST ONES OUT THERE RANGING FROM PRICES $300-$400.
People who have there own WEB SITE now you can get the the best program to put yourself on al search engines automactly, and it updates itself and sends to new search engines, demo available
People who do not want this program , can register with us and we send to all 200 plus sites, for a small fee.
CIGAR LOVER WE HAVE GREAT TASTEING CIGARS AT UN- BEATABLE PRICES,
GO TO OUR SITE FOR MORE INFORMATION
NOTICE : I AM NOT SENDING BY A LIST , SO THERE IS NO REMOVAL AT THIS TIME.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-09 (Fri, 9 May 1997 16:04:08 -0700 (PDT)) - FREE REFERRAL SERVICE - _MOBILE.CONNECTION@texoma.net_

92
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-21 - Rogue Key Warning
## Header Data
From: TruthMonger \<tm@dev.null\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 08e99da357440da245e158c8df68940723e909bfb3c4ab070ff6167cf1138363<br>
Message ID: \<199705211502.JAA13497@wombat.sk.sympatico.ca\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-21 15:30:36 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 23:30:36 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: TruthMonger <tm@dev.null>
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 23:30:36 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Rogue Key Warning
Message-ID: <199705211502.JAA13497@wombat.sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
TruthMonger wrote:
> In keeping with what I see as a cypherpunk frame of mind, I am
> posting this via an anonymous remailer, but I am also digitally
> signing it. I am not hiding my identity, but merely taking
> action to prevent my public statement from being used to unjustly
> persecute me.
The PGP public key included with the file for identification
purposes has a verifying signature that can corrupt your PGP 5.0
keyring file if you use the "Get Selected Key" option to get
that particular verifying key and add it to your keyring. It
crashes the program.
The offending key shows up as "Unavailable, 0xFC3568CD" in
the PGP 5.0 list of verifying signatures for the key.
The key included in the file causes no problems with the program
when added to the keyring as long as you don't use the program to
retreive the offending verification key and add it to your keyring.
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: 5.0 beta
> Charset: noconv
>
> iQCVAwUBM4KR+6ozBjzmqceZAQHeRQQAiI6CSKzPgioO5UdacoNbtKPyTvhHOuNB
> /kkCx1UuYiVOaIw48oVX7Gj1bIcMMkAiM+q6q+SOZkEq+hNUdriISpY5/aKA39Yp
> ejNKl2McRK7WrP+TQPNx9hwxFrW93JrqjhSPhZsgkVNtIHG/wE1RpdWJzPiIOeP2
> /Q9TTHmRoRU=
> =x+P/
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
> Version: 5.0 beta
>
> mQCNAzMs140AAAEEAL1CAoB5pd97hIOoT6L0v05Ov8nw0unf0db6NXZ91EJAyq9p
> DoPGJl7Z6m5McIsNI2DrCEEt7KYdt0ZIGcqqK2gmCePYI0oQOFj+jznI3jKXg1k2
> R+ngk+cUn21EfrNXFGPk1Tuc1/3Qib6cX6BZRJvvz1FNYNt/zqozBjzmqceZAAUR
> tBtUb3RvIDx0b3RvQHNrLnN5bXBhdGljby5jYT6JAJUCBRAzPR6jIokaQ0EgfuUB
> ARyWA/9P1UVMvBAGXY488f/Nvs1CZnp/a0SNxELXfpMyJz/Vdd2RuahRYoc50Cbp
> F1/QOd4PZeEW2aNT/shxfm3Q9zpxGzyFgy//tEXdw2aedzdT4oMOgDBqMrzc2LfN
> 8zWqF5cWJLASIqwbrIkmyZR6LUCxmE79WmgRlQGAHfMwwC3WLYkAlQMFEDOCfw+w
> X4yQZvuMZQEBhuYEAJW2pN2aj1m7972GkQvUVBeenWrMqKXNyHF/73+YGZsLLo79
> ApWR1ROm2RgxXJQeHSrUolXhxpkjHe9DJ5GwrsV7m97HfwvM32Vw/32U4T1jyeez
> VvBqJQ417UxxYS2QSQZIyLcVojFEJvh/kQ2NFXwTPJ1BscPn4/KnT6DD0u5ciQCV
> AwUQM4J+6pfboLn8NWjNAQGTigQAnrFZ8OiAguWqi1LsClKo0t9y+Ly98EPnpBt2
> FgQN9/Z8PSZjPqEn9AJk7Z5TBhGJNXBmkULiuNA9zvGTsRM0S7Oi6/WFUcL9rio6
> gMsxTnDythGaFa5YDQXgXtFxqcjsojGhe922KFnVi4xxatO9vm9Zo3JaNAK8zvg2
> rIrd7VQ=
> =MuiR
> -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-21 (Wed, 21 May 1997 23:30:36 +0800) - Rogue Key Warning - _TruthMonger \<tm@dev.null\>_

102
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-23 - RFC 2144 on CAST-128 Encryption Algorithms (fwd)
## Header Data
From: cpunks@algebra.com<br>
To: cypherpunks@manifold.algebra.com<br>
Message Hash: 0914fd456108cd50324664b09768eaaa3854d98070abc2313e2619c33dd734ff<br>
Message ID: \<199705230408.XAA32582@manifold.algebra.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-23 04:18:06 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 12:18:06 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: cpunks@algebra.com
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 12:18:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@manifold.algebra.com
Subject: RFC 2144 on CAST-128 Encryption Algorithms (fwd)
Message-ID: <199705230408.XAA32582@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text
plz do not use bcc
igor
----- Forwarded message from Adam Shostack -----
>From cpunks@manifold.algebra.com Thu May 22 13:12:32 1997
From: Adam Shostack <adam@homeport.org>
Message-Id: <199705221736.NAA17266@homeport.org>
Subject: RFC 2144 on CAST-128 Encryption Algorithms (fwd)
To: coderpunks@toad.com (The Coderpunks list)
Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 13:36:16 -0400 (EDT)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL27 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-cypherpunks@toad.com
Precedence: bulk
I hadn't seen this mentioned. This is to coderpunks, bcc'd to
cypherpunks & cryptography.
Adam
------
A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.
RFC 2144:
Title: The CAST-128 Encryption Algorithm
Author: C. Adams
Date: May 1997
Mailbox: cadams@entrust.com
Pages: 15
Characters: 37532
Updates/Obsoletes: None
URL: ftp://ds.internic.net/rfc/rfc2144.txt
There is a need in the Internet community for an unencumbered
encryption algorithm with a range of key sizes that can provide
security for a variety of cryptographic applications and protocols.
This document describes an existing algorithm that can be used to
satisfy this requirement.
This memo provides information for the Internet community. This memo
does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution of
this memo is unlimited.
----- End of forwarded message from Adam Shostack -----
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-23 (Fri, 23 May 1997 12:18:06 +0800) - RFC 2144 on CAST-128 Encryption Algorithms (fwd) - _cpunks@algebra.com_
+ 1997-05-23 (Fri, 23 May 1997 17:10:54 +0800) - [Bcc's & cpunks@algebra.com forwards](/archive/1997/05/333e9b4c1a4522b5e81886c00cf184a21d3203057b5f9764a510cb06b801a333) - _Adam Back \<aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk\>_
+ 1997-05-23 (Sat, 24 May 1997 07:14:27 +0800) - [Re: Bcc's & cpunks@algebra.com forwards](/archive/1997/05/f083d9cb152f57f74585949f1976080acab5b77b915928a114daf963433919a4) - _ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)_
+ 1997-05-24 (Sat, 24 May 1997 17:02:20 +0800) - [Re: Bcc's & cpunks@algebra.com forwards](/archive/1997/05/ddd4243470edf3333549ed175621d2778e7cabd1fa2c22284e33773d732601e6) - _Adam Back \<aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk\>_
+ 1997-05-24 (Sat, 24 May 1997 20:10:14 +0800) - [Re: Bcc's & cpunks@algebra.com forwards](/archive/1997/05/d4e2f3f80634aa75ac3f90b7bcdebf33a5c823b729e6c012e6f02a6d5d460d2e) - _ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)_

94
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-08 - IP: Crypto News Flash (fwd)
## Header Data
From: Bill Stewart \<stewarts@ix.netcom.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 092723db9a7980c52ff45735b010a7c22985da4ba64f2d4cfb092ec311fde6e3<br>
Message ID: \<3.0.1.32.19970508103647.002ec6d8@popd.ix.netcom.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-08 18:19:26 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 02:19:26 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Bill Stewart <stewarts@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 02:19:26 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: IP: Crypto News Flash (fwd)
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970508103647.002ec6d8@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
>From: "Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law"
> <froomkin@LAW.MIAMI.EDU>
>Subject: IP: Crypto News Flash (fwd)
>To: CYBERIA-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
>
>Amazing if true. Part of my amazement is that Sen. Kerry, who I think of
>as somewhat moderate if not somewhat liberal, would be a party to this.
...
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 12:51:01 -0400
>From: David Farber <farber@cis.upenn.edu>
>Subject: IP: Crypto News Flash
>
>
>CyberWire Dispatch // Copyright (c) 1997 // May 1997
>
>Jacking in from the "Take My Crypto, Please" port:
>
>Washington, DC--A new anti-crypto bill now floating around Washington
>would place restrictions on the import of strong crypto products into the
>U.S. and possibly outlaw the use of non-government approved encryption
>products.
>
>During a morning briefing at the Capitol, Sen. Bob Kerry
>(D-Neb.), talking about his impending new crypto bill, which he will call
>the "Secure Public Interest Act" said that the bill WILL include
>IMPORT restrictions on crypto software.
>
>Incredible. We've heard rumblings the folks behind crypto strangling
>efforts would jump to import controls on crypto software if key escrow
>weren't widely adopted.
>
>Restricting imports, of course, is a kind of de facto domestic
>restriction as well. It means that companies can't import strong
>foreign made crypto products to use in their worldwide offices, forcing
>them to use the govt. mandated weaker crypto products.
>
>Next step: outlawing some domestic crypto products.
>
>Kerry, when asked if there would be restrictions on private encryption,
>said "I don't envision that at the outset, but it might end up in the bill."
>
>Meeks out...
>
>
# Thanks; Bill
# Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts@ix.netcom.com
# You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp
# (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-08 (Fri, 9 May 1997 02:19:26 +0800) - IP: Crypto News Flash (fwd) - _Bill Stewart \<stewarts@ix.netcom.com\>_
+ 1997-05-08 (Fri, 9 May 1997 04:24:52 +0800) - [Trapped behind the Silicon Curtain](/archive/1997/05/1e92bf485975b1ca3d26595b2dbeb6fbd0ffaa317626514ff9cd3312c35b65e2) - _Tim May \<tcmay@got.net\>_

71
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-14 - DoJ on Bombmaking Info
## Header Data
From: John Young \<jya@pipeline.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0930903cbc34666750a95719df953147608d8b48e6975145b4f860e7e5146bff<br>
Message ID: \<1.5.4.32.19970514221851.008f9594@pop.pipeline.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-14 22:46:25 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 06:46:25 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: John Young <jya@pipeline.com>
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 06:46:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: DoJ on Bombmaking Info
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970514221851.008f9594@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
We offer:
"Report on the Availability of Bombmaking Information,
the Extent to Which Its Dissemination Is Controlled
by Federal Law, and the Extent to Which Such
Dissemination May Be Subject to Regulation Consistent
with the First Amendment to the United States
Constitution
Prepared by the United States Department of Justice As
Required by Section 709(a) of the Antiterrorism and
Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996.
Submitted to the United States House of Representatives
and the United States Senate
April 1997"
-----
http://jya.com/abi.htm (193K)
This relates to the proposed "Feinstein Amendment" of the
AEPDA. It covers in detail what kind of speech is permissable
now and what language for the amendment should be to
close gaps. A fine distinction is traced between "teaching"
the use of terrorist and mass destruction weapons and
"advocating" them. Or something like that -- I am a jailhouse
laugher.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-14 (Thu, 15 May 1997 06:46:25 +0800) - DoJ on Bombmaking Info - _John Young \<jya@pipeline.com\>_

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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-18 - No Subject
## Header Data
From: lucifer@dhp.com (lucifer Anonymous Remailer)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 097138036bb837c19af9676e36f1df3e21aee290c8bdadeba0bbc7f249afd10a<br>
Message ID: \<199705181349.JAA25495@dhp.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-18 14:08:35 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 22:08:35 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: lucifer@dhp.com (lucifer Anonymous Remailer)
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 22:08:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199705181349.JAA25495@dhp.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Declaration of Digital Independence
-------------------------------------
We, the computer-literate and technologically superior, in order to
break the ignorant chains of those who hold us back, do hereby
declare our freedom from those who control what they do not
understand. We wish to no longer hear the cries of
"pornography-superhighway" and "cyber-patrol". We reject the
repulsive nonsense shoved down our throats by all forms of media
telling of the dangers of piracy, pornography, and in general, free
thought. There are no "cyber-molesters" we cannot stop as a people.
If you educate your children like the good parent you should be,
they should know what is right and what is wrong, and will be wise,
young judges, with free thought and judgement. We cannot simply
"block" what we find offensive, on the net, on bulletin boards, and
as we all know, in real life. We must learn to deal with the "day to
day inadequacies" of life, and we must not simply become mindless
drones of those that fight to restrict freedom. We must fight even
harder than they, and we must fight to stay free, or all right is
lost. If it's not worth fighting for, then you have already been
brainwashed.
The internet (NOT info-superhighway, or i-way, as those terms are
simply insulting and degrading, made up by the ignorant) cannot and
SHOULD NOT be regulated. It should be allowed to make it's own rules.
It is bigger than any world you can and can't imagine, and it will
not be controlled. It is the embodiment of all that is free; free
information, friendship, alliances, materials, ideas, suggestions,
news, and more. The "Cyber-Angels" are only well-meaning do-gooders
with nothing better to do than to "tattle" on those with different
ideas than they. They use entrapment, and have twisted their ideas
and values to make them apply to cyberspace, trying to rule an area
they do not understand. Fighting for the freedom to think is good,
but to fight for an idea you believe is the only true idea is itself
ignorance. The nazis believed that they were superior, in ideas and
actions, and the "Cyber Angels" are nothing more. You cannot stop
freedom of thought, and they try anyway, to convert anyone and
everyone to their mode of thought. But those of us who see clearly
know that the internet is the greatest invention ever, topping the
telephone and electricity. It is a gathering of the mental body of
billions of people, and we will not be stopped.
The media, as it is known, is the propaganda vending machine of
today. As a whole, they trip over themselves, feeding lies to the
ignorant, and we who are not will watch too, to laugh at the
stupidity that is the media. We sit in front of our televisions, or
listening to the radio, or looking at a newspaper or a magazine, and
we laugh. We laugh and laugh, because the media has become a
ridiculous pool of lies and half-truths. They say we're more
dangerous than sicknesses, and nuclear weapons, because we choose to
laugh at their ideas and boundaries, and we fight to expand them. We
laugh at the pitiful security devices used to keep knowledge from
spreading, and we rip down the beaurocratic bullshit tape they put up
in virtual doorways. We call the boards they show on the news,
covered in ideas and values different than theirs, and we like it. We
like asking for a computer program that we never would have bought,
and having it show up in our mailboxes. We like leaving messages on
BBS' containing information on how to blow up a building or how to
kill a man with your bare hands. We like it, not because it scares
people or because it's "twisted" or "evil", but because it's
forbidden, and lost. You do not know what a "redbox" is? Come,
friend, and I will spread the lost knowledge. And when I tell you,
you will tell another, and we will be held together by the knowledge
which we "should not know". We are the illuminati, and the
enlightened. We look not to the old sciences of textbook learning,
but to the primitive ways, of communication and experience.
We are sickened by the unenlightened. We despise those who wish not
to learn, and those who read the same books, over and over again,
under different names, believing that they are learning. We are the
"different", and the "abnormal", those who are sometimes disliked
because we regurgitate the lies fed to us by the governing. Everyone
has the need to know, the curiosity of the caveman who invented
fire, but some have been trained like monkeys, not ever knowing it's
there. They simply accept things, and do what is expected of them,
and this is sad. They are those who never fight back, and never open
their minds. And they are, unfortunately, usually the governing
bodies; the teachers, bosses, police, federal agents, congressmen,
senators, parents, and more. And this, my friend, must change.
We will not be "voted out", and we will not be mentally disfigured.
If they had the chance, government and the media would give everyone
a virtual labotamy. Our minds to be held in chains, forced to take in
what is given. This is unacceptable. We will not be held down, by
the ignorant, the foolish, and especially the lazy. We take your
textbooks and your lies, and we put them back in the dusty
storerooms where they belong. And we share ideas, and make new ones,
and sometimes ask for a hand to hold, and not one around our throat.
We see what no others can, and what no others want to see. It is a
technological revolution, and a revolution of ideas. We will fight
in battles for our freedom to think, should there be any, but we will
not start any. We are not a violent group, but our opposition
believes ideas should not be let loose to grow, and they will begin
the battle. They have no honor, stealing from us our rights, our
liberty, and our freedom of thought. And for this, we label them
unforgiven...
- Anarchy, and the AoC...
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-18 (Sun, 18 May 1997 22:08:35 +0800) - No Subject - _lucifer@dhp.com (lucifer Anonymous Remailer)_

99
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-10 - DoD computer security
## Header Data
From: harka@nycmetro.com<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0977cadd3be222a114180f91ce2cfc33a3ed467a790534aa44cb3c1b680eb8f3<br>
Message ID: \<TCPSMTP.17.5.10.11.50.0.2780269260.1634448@nycmetro.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-10 15:59:02 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 23:59:02 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: harka@nycmetro.com
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 23:59:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: DoD computer security
Message-ID: <TCPSMTP.17.5.10.11.50.0.2780269260.1634448@nycmetro.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
May be of interest:
== Forwarded Message Follows =========================================
Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 23:22:55 -0700
From: Alan Hersh <cyberwiz@web-site.com>
To: GsuNet List <gsunet-l@bgu.edu>
Subject: Computer Attacks at Department of Defense
http://www.fas.org/irp/gao/aim96084.htm
Information Security: Computer Attacks at Department of Defense
Pose Increasing Risks
(Chapter Report, 05/22/96, GAO/AIMD-96-84)
Pursuant to a congressional request, GAO reviewed the extent to
which Department of Defense (DOD) computer systems are attacked,
focusing on the: (1) potential for further damage to DOD computer
systems; and (2) challenges DOD faces in securing sensitive
information on its computer systems.
====================================================================
Ciao
Harka
/*************************************************************/
/* This user supports FREE SPEECH ONLINE ...more info at */
/* and PRIVATE ONLINE COMMUNICATIONS! -> http://www.epic.org */
/* E-mail: harka(at)nycmetro.com (PGP-encrypted mail pref'd) */
/* PGP public key available upon request. [KeyID: 04174301] */
/* F-print: FD E4 F8 6D C1 6A 44 F5 28 9C 40 6E B8 94 78 E8 */
/*<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*/
/* May there be peace in this world, may all anger dissolve */
/* and may all living beings find the way to happiness... */
/*************************************************************/
... Want to use PGP? -> http://bureau42.base.org/public/pgpsteps.txt
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2
iQEVAgUBM3SXszltEBIEF0MBAQFmbAf/XMMsgXtxqb5o+Stsl63Kp5wFDaVbXThp
bb8sIQfkxR8Zqq1CKw69wi/usX3ouw/3ejI856QviS72o50F2HLRuv3U213dOp/L
AhPEBO7qF1otr9Ucrw5L42fE5nH89ZRlzHwuNr8+eA1CjjYF+IUNCAzKziebyqzY
WdGeswMP8PWDocviJMl70o3FsNBJnj4HPom0Za3qVY8wXr3J+2i5LeSqLk0t7Yeo
5mDIiQiRXck/fVYeYSWR3lyXkj3nWxKSM1bhVxjfuzLaeUVbHFTB8rRxTSkqYz88
FenmXC9NFFYYrFKyQfXvb2hoRGoJxvtOBt3X76WpPw1moa3l83HTtQ==
=yYeC
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
If encryption is outlawed, only outlaws will have encryption...
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-10 (Sat, 10 May 1997 23:59:02 +0800) - DoD computer security - _harka@nycmetro.com_

61
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-30 - Re: Continuing spam from vulis
## Header Data
From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)<br>
To: jeff@fat.doobie.com (Jeff Burchell)<br>
Message Hash: 09803e8d2d781984a71f1c27162b09689d171d9038a7c0944c5f74dbaaa698db<br>
Message ID: \<199705302242.RAA16939@manifold.algebra.com\><br>
Reply To: \<Pine.LNX.3.96.970530123734.9455K-100000@fat.doobie.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-30 23:10:34 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 07:10:34 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 07:10:34 +0800
To: jeff@fat.doobie.com (Jeff Burchell)
Subject: Re: Continuing spam from vulis
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.970530123734.9455K-100000@fat.doobie.com>
Message-ID: <199705302242.RAA16939@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text
Jeff Burchell wrote:
> On Fri, 30 May 1997, Paul Pomes wrote:
> To this, I recieved a very firm "no!" (cypherpunks is of course a list
> where people do have good reasons to use remailers). Because of that, I
> _WON'T_ block cypherpunks, until I am instructed to by May, Gilmore,
> Hughes, et.al. Period. This holds true for all mailing lists. I need to
> have authorization from the list maintainer to block the list.
Excuse me, what do these individuals have that allows them to give
instructions to remailer operators?
> P.P.S. Isn't there a non-flames moderated cypherpunks? Perhaps you
> want to be on that list instead of the free-for-all.
There is one, operated by Ray Arachelian, I believe.
- Igor.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-30 (Sat, 31 May 1997 03:58:28 +0800) - [Re: Continuing spam from vulis](/archive/1997/05/0bff26a99d2985a75ab8b852865786c18c24930f2b9d60d4bbcb26398bd6a3a5) - _Jeff Burchell \<jeff@fat.doobie.com\>_
+ 1997-05-30 (Sat, 31 May 1997 07:10:34 +0800) - Re: Continuing spam from vulis - _ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)_

45
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-13 - Would the anonymous person(s) please...
## Header Data
From: bennett_t1@popmail.firn.edu<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0a277a67edb9ec82bcfff7b949de660fce991a79c17471683bd09578689fac89<br>
Message ID: \<3378E8E5.1B6B@popmail.firn.edu\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-13 21:33:47 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 05:33:47 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: bennett_t1@popmail.firn.edu
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 05:33:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Would the anonymous person(s) please...
Message-ID: <3378E8E5.1B6B@popmail.firn.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Would all those anonymous remailing people with a flame tendency, please
flame the person of your attacks, and don't send this bullshit to the
list? Thanks...
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-13 (Wed, 14 May 1997 05:33:47 +0800) - Would the anonymous person(s) please... - _bennett_t1@popmail.firn.edu_

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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-19 - RE: Jim Bell goes to Jail--We should avoid raidable, physical meeting
## Header Data
From: Chris DiBona \<dibona@acm.org\><br>
To: "cypherpunks@toad.com\><br>
Message Hash: 0aca3c21a57e4af6aac132a3dfb7f538d3827c84cc9efcd02c9b2afc6cd8379a<br>
Message ID: \<01BC643D.699ED1D0@marmoset.loc201.tandem.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-19 17:37:46 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 01:37:46 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Chris DiBona <dibona@acm.org>
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 01:37:46 +0800
To: "cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: RE: Jim Bell goes to Jail--We should avoid raidable, physical meeting
Message-ID: <01BC643D.699ED1D0@marmoset.loc201.tandem.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
<RANT>
I couldn't disagree with you more Tim.
If the FBI wants to come raid a Cypherpunk meeting and arrest me, they should be ready for a law suit that will make thier heads spin. I mean can you think of anything more protected by the first amendment than a bunch of hobbiest getting together to discuss math, for christs sakes? I know a couple of lawyers who would drool at the chance to defend someone who is lily white and is arrested for meeting and discussing prime numbers.
To suggest the cessation of meetings (no matter how worthless Dimitri) really seems to me to be counter to everything this group is about.
</RANT>
Chris DiBona
-----Original Message-----
From: Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM [SMTP:dlv@bwalk.dm.com]
Sent: Monday, May 19, 1997 4:30 AM
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Jim Bell goes to Jail--We should avoid raidable, physical meeting
Tim May <tcmay@got.net> writes:
> (Also, I suggest _physical_ Cypherpunks meetings not be held for the
> foreseeable future. I know I plan to skip them all. A gathering of "reputed
> information terrorists, who have openly discussed assassination markets, C4
> explosives, and the destabilization of democratic governments" would be too
> ripe a target for clowns like Reno, Freeh, and Kallstrom.)
The physical meetings I've been to were not worth the trip.
---
Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-19 (Tue, 20 May 1997 01:37:46 +0800) - RE: Jim Bell goes to Jail--We should avoid raidable, physical meeting - _Chris DiBona \<dibona@acm.org\>_
+ 1997-05-19 (Tue, 20 May 1997 02:18:27 +0800) - [RE: Jim Bell goes to Jail--We should avoid raidable, physicalmeeting](/archive/1997/05/0c1603c2478ce3c62f02a5f5cc501bff9ec87a28a7d035610415634ddd34fbde) - _Tim May \<tcmay@got.net\>_

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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-24 - Re: Too few cypherpunks nodes. (fwd)
## Header Data
From: Jim Choate \<ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)<br>
Message Hash: 0afa5ffc7c03842511831eda023384fc24afdbf8f7b07a1bb5e2e6b8c5399389<br>
Message ID: \<199705241406.JAA23220@einstein.ssz.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-24 14:57:46 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:57:46 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Jim Choate <ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com>
Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 22:57:46 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer)
Subject: Re: Too few cypherpunks nodes. (fwd)
Message-ID: <199705241406.JAA23220@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text
Forwarded message:
> Date: Sat, 24 May 1997 14:10:59 +0100
> From: Adam Back <aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk>
> Subject: Re: Too few cypherpunks nodes.
> Does anyone know how many people are using Jim's cypherpunks@ssz.com?
I don't even check, less than 100 for shure and probably less than 25.
Don't remember seeing that many notices of subscription to the cpunks list.
There are a LOT of info and help requests though.
> Also I might point out that the afforded privacy is mostly illusionary
> because any TLA who cared could observe the mail fanning out from
> ssz.com with Sender: cypherpunks-owner@ssz.com and reconstruct the
> list in short order.
True, but in that case they can simply walk in with a subpeonae and take it
as well, it is sitting there in a plain text file. The reason I do this is to
minimize spammings and other such attacks it is not to protect anyone from a
truly determined assault but rather from those marketing idiots out there
with no clue as to anything close to reasonable behaviour.
And yes, I realize that this can be defeated by simply subscribing to the
mailing list and watching your incoming as you reference above.
(Hint: I ain't a marketing weenie)
There are other boogey-men than just TLA's....who in my opinion are the
easiest to deal with.
Jim Choate
CyberTects
ravage@ssz.com
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-24 (Sat, 24 May 1997 22:57:46 +0800) - Re: Too few cypherpunks nodes. (fwd) - _Jim Choate \<ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com\>_
+ 1997-05-25 (Sun, 25 May 1997 13:11:47 +0800) - [Re: Too few cypherpunks nodes. (fwd)](/archive/1997/05/3b25888b4e1462843e83ee9b3d1a40cb263e5530c4e09c07226098f76f90a638) - _ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)_
+ 1997-05-25 (Mon, 26 May 1997 00:31:09 +0800) - [Re: Too few cypherpunks nodes. (fwd)](/archive/1997/05/87555218b987ac563209a54a178db0af98f42ae1967d4123d77c5fa80b1ac9fe) - _franl@world.std.omit-this.com (Francis Litterio)_
+ 1997-05-25 (Mon, 26 May 1997 01:03:28 +0800) - [Re: Too few cypherpunks nodes. (fwd)](/archive/1997/05/239c9e23953c00a74e32f06e02ac29e51d285ac6229e1b69431ede2ee4074b34) - _ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)_

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# 1997-05-02 - EAR questions.
## Header Data
From: das@razor.engr.sgi.com (Anil Das)<br>
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net<br>
Message Hash: 0b44a297b052cefead054a802194eb5bef81c0b3496470f27c87b2fd4c69d690<br>
Message ID: \<9705011902.ZM27479@razor.engr.sgi.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-02 02:19:32 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 10:19:32 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: das@razor.engr.sgi.com (Anil Das)
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 10:19:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: EAR questions.
Message-ID: <9705011902.ZM27479@razor.engr.sgi.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
[ Didn't get much response when I posted this to cryptography@c2.net.
Hope there will be more response on cypherpunks. ]
I couldn't find a solid answer to the following questions,
after reading relevent sections of the EAR, and talking to some
people. I am looking for considered opinions, not legal advice.
1) Does a software such as the DESCHALL client or Peter Trei's DESKR
program, in object code form, need a license to be exported? Keep
in mind that even thought there are some cryptographic functions
inside the programs, they cannot be directly used to encrypt data,
nor can they be easily modified (i.e. without reverse engineering)
to make data encryption possible.
2) Does the "printed matter exception" apply only to publications?
Is it legal, under the EAR, for somebody in the US to print out
the source code for an encryption program on paper and send it to
a private party abroad (not a country in the enemies list). Does
it make any difference whether this is done for monetory compensation?
Does it make any difference whether the sender intends to keep the
source code secret between himself and the recipient?
Btw, it looks like the language about scannable encryption source code,
that was in the draft regulations, have been removed.
One more, general question.
3) Is it correct to say that, as long as you are not selling it to
a military organization and the software is intended for civilian
use, the export of encryption software is now controlled exclusively
by the EAR, and not by the ITAR? I ask this because many of the
people who answered "only publications" to question 2) above,
could only quote the ITAR in support of their position.
Thanks.
--
Anil Das
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-02 (Fri, 2 May 1997 10:19:32 +0800) - EAR questions. - _das@razor.engr.sgi.com (Anil Das)_

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# 1997-05-14 - Re: Spam IS Free Speech
## Header Data
From: lucifer@dhp.com (lucifer Anonymous Remailer)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0b7a3d8c8963ea4ee1649f0a735eb45c872d17e61e8a235a83e42aaad6db1647<br>
Message ID: \<199705140746.DAA29236@dhp.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-14 08:13:09 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 16:13:09 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: lucifer@dhp.com (lucifer Anonymous Remailer)
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 16:13:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Spam IS Free Speech
Message-ID: <199705140746.DAA29236@dhp.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Ross Wright wrote:
>
> You can not retaliate against free
> speech, Rick. That's a bad thing, plain and simple, black and white.
Crock of shit, Ross.
It costs me money to download unwanted spam. What's this "free"
bullshit?
> You got a website? You post to usenet? I know you post to this
> list. By now, everyone knows that any of those things are as good as
> giving away your e-mail address. Maybe that's unethical, but it's a
> fact. And if you do have a website, it's an open invitation for me
> to send you advertisements, just like the yellow pages.
And if a woman wears short skirts, what kind of open invitation
is that? Are banks who advertise that they handle money announcing
an open invitation to the greedy?
> Free speech is a right. You have the right to make some snotty
> reply, but no right to intentionally harm.
Spammers neither know nor care if they are causing harm to the
finances or mental well-being of others.
If a spammer declares their right to cause me financial loss and
denial of service for the time it takes me to rid myself of their
unwanted intrusion then they can have no expectation that I, in
turn, will not declare what level of financial loss and denial of
service I will cause them.
> You, nor anyone else, has a right to lash out at
> someone for something they say or some ad they send you.
So spammers have no right to lash out at my sending them a
gigabyte of email regarding the evils of spamming.
> > It makes
> > *me* feel better.
>
> Ahhh, at last the point. Are you a self centred ass, who's personal
> feelings are more important that the Constitution?
Ross has failed to explain just how the Constitution promotes the
spammer's right to intrude upon the spammer's life and cause them
financial loss while denying that right to the spammee.
Ross' personal feelings seem to be important enough to him to cast
slurs on those who disagree with his black-and-white opinions regarding
his right to spam others without them having a corresponding right
to reply in kind.
Gander. Goose.
TruthMonger
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-14 (Wed, 14 May 1997 16:13:09 +0800) - Re: Spam IS Free Speech - _lucifer@dhp.com (lucifer Anonymous Remailer)_

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# 1997-05-18 - referers and W3 (fwd)
## Header Data
From: Rich Graves \<llurch@networking.stanford.edu\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0bbc2f13faf59552d30b81c439fd22349c1c0c93a7f417b1731a798cbba7fe1e<br>
Message ID: \<Pine.GUL.3.95.970512081613.25461B-100000@Networking.Stanford.EDU\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-18 06:59:30 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 14:59:30 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Rich Graves <llurch@networking.stanford.edu>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 14:59:30 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: referers and W3 (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.GUL.3.95.970512081613.25461B-100000@Networking.Stanford.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
A friend who webmasters a large site that is implementing referer-specific
content sent me this when I mentioned the cpunks/cryptography thread of a
few months back. I basically agree with the W3C. While user education on the
potential privacy threat is essential, I do not believe that Netscape should
violate published technical standards. There are also privacy and property
issues from the server's perspective.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Subject: referers and W3
The following text was added to W3's page on HTML on May 8. If nobody
else has noticed this, you might wish to share it with the cypherpunks, I
don't know.
HTML, Hypertext Links and Referer URLs
In a vacuum, semantically neutral technology attracts meaning. If
neutral technology is useful, commerce -- abhorring a vacuum --
uses technology in often-unforeseen ways to build new markets.
Over the past year we have seen attempts to create meaning for
HTML references where none existed before. Links have been argued
to mean revenue streams, approval, a source of liability,
endorsement, and ownership.
The Web depends on hypertext links between resources. Links can
act as references, or to embed material, both of which are
concepts that have been around for a long long time. Whats new
with the Web is the ability to follow links quickly.
When a user clicks on a link, the URL of the page containing the
link is passed to the server along with the requested URL. This
gives Web sites the opportunity to customize the response
according to the page the user clicked on.
If someone jumps into a Web site without entering via the home
page, a content provider may choose to turn them away or to
redirect them to the home page. A smarter Web site could use
partial string matches on the Referer and Requested URLs to
customize the page it returns.
One reason for doing this is to ensure visitors see the banner ads
and promotions, a site is using to create revenue; another is to
avoid broken links when people (or indexing engines) bookmark
transitory Web pages.
The Referer URL can also be used to determine how to honor
requests for images or applets. For instance, you might decide to
only provide images to sites which have signed a license agreement
with you.
http://www.w3.org/pub/WWW/MarkUp/
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-18 (Sun, 18 May 1997 14:59:30 +0800) - referers and W3 (fwd) - _Rich Graves \<llurch@networking.stanford.edu\>_
+ 1997-05-18 (Mon, 19 May 1997 07:55:22 +0800) - [Re: referers and W3 (fwd)](/archive/1997/05/9314de3327d64eac89628ab38f7acff01863e55420fc20861479e67b1b03c45d) - _Tom Weinstein \<tomw@netscape.com\>_
+ 1997-05-19 (Mon, 19 May 1997 08:26:31 +0800) - [Re: referers and W3 (fwd)](/archive/1997/05/381c737780d584734e380e67da5b780df8bb4ab20df88b86a961ed8bfbf132d3) - _Rich Graves \<llurch@networking.stanford.edu\>_

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# 1997-05-30 - Re: Continuing spam from vulis
## Header Data
From: Jeff Burchell \<jeff@fat.doobie.com\><br>
To: Paul Pomes \<ppomes@Qualcomm.com\><br>
Message Hash: 0bff26a99d2985a75ab8b852865786c18c24930f2b9d60d4bbcb26398bd6a3a5<br>
Message ID: \<Pine.LNX.3.96.970530123734.9455K-100000@fat.doobie.com\><br>
Reply To: \<10948.865019869@zelkova.qualcomm.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-30 19:58:28 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 03:58:28 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Jeff Burchell <jeff@fat.doobie.com>
Date: Sat, 31 May 1997 03:58:28 +0800
To: Paul Pomes <ppomes@Qualcomm.com>
Subject: Re: Continuing spam from vulis
In-Reply-To: <10948.865019869@zelkova.qualcomm.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.970530123734.9455K-100000@fat.doobie.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
On Fri, 30 May 1997, Paul Pomes wrote:
> The wider circulation is due to the complete lack of response from
> remailer-admin@cajones.com.
Be careful when you say "Complete lack of response". You've got no idea
what I did and didn't do once I got your message.
I have previously talked with the operator of the cypherpunks list (this
was about 2 months ago when someone else was abusing the remailer to post
trash to that list). At that time, I offered the standard good will
gesture that remailer operators can offer: "Would you like me to block the
list, so this remailer won't send anything to it". Because of the nature
of anonymous remailers, this is about the extent of the action that I can
take.
To this, I recieved a very firm "no!" (cypherpunks is of course a list
where people do have good reasons to use remailers). Because of that, I
_WON'T_ block cypherpunks, until I am instructed to by May, Gilmore,
Hughes, et.al. Period. This holds true for all mailing lists. I need to
have authorization from the list maintainer to block the list.
I have added your address to my block list, this remailer won't send
anything directly to you in the future. If you don't want to read
anything from this mailer that comes across lists, then you should either
manually delete anonymous messages before reading them (the headers and
return address make it obvious when a message has come through a
remailer), or turn on some client-side mail filters. Your own company
makes a product with adaquate functionality to do this.
-Jeff
Operator... Huge.cajones.com
P.S. Besides... aren't ad hominum attacks on Tim May a Cypherpunks
tradition?
P.P.S. Isn't there a non-flames moderated cypherpunks? Perhaps you
want to be on that list instead of the free-for-all.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"When they came for the 2nd Amendment, I said nothing, for I owned no gun
Then the sixth was next to go, and I remained silent, as I was not on trial
They took away the fourth, and I said nothing, as I had nothing to hide
And then they came for the First, and I could say nothing."
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-30 (Sat, 31 May 1997 03:58:28 +0800) - Re: Continuing spam from vulis - _Jeff Burchell \<jeff@fat.doobie.com\>_
+ 1997-05-30 (Sat, 31 May 1997 07:10:34 +0800) - [Re: Continuing spam from vulis](/archive/1997/05/09803e8d2d781984a71f1c27162b09689d171d9038a7c0944c5f74dbaaa698db) - _ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)_

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# 1997-05-19 - RE: Jim Bell goes to Jail--We should avoid raidable, physicalmeeting
## Header Data
From: Tim May \<tcmay@got.net\><br>
To: cypherpunks@algebra.com<br>
Message Hash: 0c1603c2478ce3c62f02a5f5cc501bff9ec87a28a7d035610415634ddd34fbde<br>
Message ID: \<v03007802afa652f5305e@[207.167.93.63]\><br>
Reply To: \<01BC643D.699ED1D0@marmoset.loc201.tandem.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-19 18:18:27 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 02:18:27 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Tim May <tcmay@got.net>
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 02:18:27 +0800
To: cypherpunks@algebra.com
Subject: RE: Jim Bell goes to Jail--We should avoid raidable, physicalmeeting
In-Reply-To: <01BC643D.699ED1D0@marmoset.loc201.tandem.com>
Message-ID: <v03007802afa652f5305e@[207.167.93.63]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 9:14 AM -0800 5/19/97, Chris DiBona wrote:
><RANT>
>
>I couldn't disagree with you more Tim.
>
>If the FBI wants to come raid a Cypherpunk meeting and arrest me, they
>should be ready for a law suit that will make thier heads spin. I mean can
>you think of anything more protected by the first amendment than a bunch
>of hobbiest getting together to discuss math, for christs sakes? I know a
>couple of lawyers who would drool at the chance to defend someone who is
>lily white and is arrested for meeting and discussing prime numbers.
>
>To suggest the cessation of meetings (no matter how worthless Dimitri)
>really seems to me to be counter to everything this group is about.
Fine that you disagree. I think a lot of Feds would view a meeting of 40-50
people discussing assassination politics, violating U.S. export laws,
modifications of semi-automatic rifles to make them more effective in
counter-gov't-terrorism, etc, to be a "ripe target." Good for publicity on
the evening news.
(At the 20-30 meetings I have been at over the last almost 5 years, very
few of them have revolved around "discussing prime numbers.")
Whether it stands up in court depends on the charges. As for you being
willing to file a lawsuit that will make their heads spin, good for you.
But to win a lawsuit, one has to have a case. And the laws are written
broadly these days, and I doubt such a case would be won.
(Did anything ever come of the police actions at the "2600" meetings in
D.C. a few years back? I don't recall all of the details, but I gather the
cops either moved in and made arrests, or maybe just watched and took down
license plate numbers.)
By all means, have meetings. I just intend to be in places where I can have
defensive weapons at the ready (which has been at some Cypherpunks physical
meetings, of course).
--Tim May
There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-19 (Tue, 20 May 1997 01:37:46 +0800) - [RE: Jim Bell goes to Jail--We should avoid raidable, physical meeting](/archive/1997/05/0aca3c21a57e4af6aac132a3dfb7f538d3827c84cc9efcd02c9b2afc6cd8379a) - _Chris DiBona \<dibona@acm.org\>_
+ 1997-05-19 (Tue, 20 May 1997 02:18:27 +0800) - RE: Jim Bell goes to Jail--We should avoid raidable, physicalmeeting - _Tim May \<tcmay@got.net\>_

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# 1997-05-07 - My editorial in Oregonian newspaper published today.
## Header Data
From: jimbell@pacifier.com (Jim Bell)<br>
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net<br>
Message Hash: 0c6ad6dc92e6fdf1649392ba2df53dcfca388606087a45546312ef3036d214d3<br>
Message ID: \<199705061458.HAA08763@mail.pacifier.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-07 14:42:02 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:42:02 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: jimbell@pacifier.com (Jim Bell)
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 22:42:02 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: My editorial in Oregonian newspaper published today.
Message-ID: <199705061458.HAA08763@mail.pacifier.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
The following editorial appears in the Tuesday, May 6 issue of the
(Portland) Oregonian newspaper, on the editorial page.
Fishing Expedition Swims Against Tide
According to the maxim, if you invent a better mouse-trap the world will
beat a path to your door. Maybe the truth is that, instead, you'll get
assaulted by angry cats who are afraid of losing their jobs.
Suppose the government discovered a method to make itself obsolete. Or
suppose the military learned how to make us all even more secure, for a
thousandth as much defense spending. We'd never hear about it because
they'd be out of a job, and job security, not national security, is their
highest priority.
Two years ago I had a revolutionary idea. I was tired of hearing the
usual stories about how much harder society's problems have gotten in the
last few decades. It's not that the problems are harder, it's just that
large constituencies have been built which depend on these "problems" for
their income.
For example, when the Cold War ended, there was no military reason we
couldn't have reduced our military budget by a factor of two or three.
"But no!," said the politicians, let's continue buying those expensive
Stealth bombers, submarines, tilt-wing airplanes, and other toys. We weren't
afraid of getting attacked, the spending continued because of the threat of
unemployment on the part of the defense-industry workers.
Legalize drugs and turn a vast legal problem into a far cheaper and more
manageable health problem? No, because with 70% or more of the prison
population there due to drug laws, you'd have to fire most of the jailers,
the prosecutors, the police, the judges, and the lawyers, all of whom have
come to depend on the involuntary "generosity" of the taxpayer.
Two years ago I realized that the whole corrupt system could be stopped. It
would be necessary to not only halt pork-barrel politics at all levels, but
also to provide a very few necessary services for people, such as defense
and justice, although financed inexpensively and voluntarily. You'd have
to shut down all militaries and governments, simultaneously, all around the
world, while at the same time protecting our security. Impossible?
In the summer of 1995 I began to write an essay, half-jokingly titled
"Assassination Politics". It occurred to me that if people could defend
themselves by anonymously donating money to anonymous people who act to
protect us, you wouldn't need militaries or governments anymore. Nuclear
bombs would be obsolete, and in fact they will be hopelessly dangerous to
anyone who owns them, because the rest of us will be able to donate money to
ensure their owners have no choice but to dismantle them. Conventional
militaries will be useless, because threats to people's security will be
dealt with far more cheaply by large numbers of tiny individual
contributions buying the part-time services of a few semi-professional
trouble-shooters.
Murderous dictators of the past and present, such as Hitler, Stalin, Mao,
Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, Khadafi, Idi Amin, and so many others simply
couldn't operate in such a world, because they (and their replacements, if
anyone dared follow them) could be removed for the collective pocket change
of a few million angry citizens.
There'd be no conventional wars, because anyone who would make war would be
a threat not only to his enemy, but also to anyone on "his" side who would
be forced to help pay for that war, or even third parties who wouldn't want
to see aggression win, for fear they'd be the next target. There would be
no draft, because forcing someone else to fight for you makes YOU his enemy,
as well: On the other hand, if your cause is just, he will contribute
voluntarily, just as you do, to see the bad guy stopped.
There would be little crime, because crime will be treated as an attack, and
people will be able to donate money to find and stop the criminals. But
unlike today, there will be no large constituency (police, jailers, judges,
prosecutors, lawyers) who have a vested interest in keeping the crime rate
high, thus terrorizing the public into supporting "anti-crime spending"
which really just lines their pockets.
I've been openly debating the idea on the Internet since then with anyone
who will listen. My essay surprises many and shocks more than a few, but
I am pleased that such a truly revolutionary concept has been so well
received. Even the Columbian newspaper (www.columbian.com) has decided to
add a pointer to the essay.
The only "threat" in the essay is to the jobs of the people who have been
parasites on the rest of us for decades, as well as to the future of
tyrannies around the world. But that's why, on April 1, twenty Federal
agents burst in and took my computer, told the news media I was "armed and
dangerous," and began engaging in a fishing expedition including harassing
people simply for knowing me. (No arrest or charges so far.) They may
claim that they were looking for something else, but what they are really,
desperately hoping to find is...job security. If I'm right, they have none.
Jim Bell
jimbell@pacifier.com
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-07 (Wed, 7 May 1997 22:42:02 +0800) - My editorial in Oregonian newspaper published today. - _jimbell@pacifier.com (Jim Bell)_
+ 1997-05-08 (Thu, 8 May 1997 08:34:59 +0800) - [Re: My editorial in Oregonian newspaper published today.](/archive/1997/05/8983a0f0429c707de200b2ae012e3be3ee1ca425c0514fe4cd551caaab3ff585) - _"Vladimir Z. Nuri" \<vznuri@netcom.com\>_

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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-12 - Sabotaging the U.S. Military-Industrial War Machine
## Header Data
From: Tim May \<tcmay@got.net\><br>
To: cypherpunks@algebra.com<br>
Message Hash: 0c909f481f8f3259790d8ad8404c7a78d77e985f0f82f4284d0866c21f133433<br>
Message ID: \<v03007803af9d0957dadf@[207.167.93.63]\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-12 17:22:06 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 01:22:06 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Tim May <tcmay@got.net>
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 01:22:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@algebra.com
Subject: Sabotaging the U.S. Military-Industrial War Machine
Message-ID: <v03007803af9d0957dadf@[207.167.93.63]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
(I sent this article to cypherpunks@cyberpass.net, but am getting no
traffic from that site, and some of my messages have bounced. I've
subscribed to cypherpunks@algebra.com and will resubmit some of my recent
articles to that address. It would be nice if the "interlinked lists"
system could work to handle outages of sites, and not just mutual
distributions of articles. Any ideas?)
>Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 19:39:47 -0800
>To: Kent Crispin <kent@songbird.com>, cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
>From: Tim May <tcmay@got.net>
>Subject: Sabotaging the U.S. Military-Industrial War Machine
>Cc:
>Bcc:
>X-Attachments:
>
>
>(Contrary to rumors, I _do) have a live outside of the Net. I've been away
>this weekend. I probably can't, or won't, respond to all of the comments
>about my recent posts.)
>
>At 12:57 PM -0800 5/10/97, Kent Crispin wrote:
>
>>I would expect a "cypherpunk riot" to be a little more aimed at
>>cyberspace than real-world suburban neighborhoods. Wouldn't you?
>>
>
>Sorry. I misunderstood you to be speaking of the "fouling of one's own
>nest" (or whatever the ebonics translation might be) riots of recent years.
>
>You are correct that a kind of riot in cyberspace is possible. However, I
>think the attacks (not riots) will not be oriented toward mayhem (no pun
>intended) toward one's neighbors, but towards destablization of
>democracies and military-industrial facilities.
>
>In particular, various attacks against the national labs.
>
>And technologies to make the "force of democracy" lose their teeth.
>
>Subscribe to the Info-War news list for more, although they are
>unfortunately biased toward the U.S. propaganda machine. (It was by some
>of them that I was characterized as an "information terrorist," a label I
>view as an honor.).
>
>(Hint: I was quoted/interviewed in oppostion to the Pentagon's
>"info-warriors" in a BBC television show called "The I-Bomb." My thesis,
>not all of which was inclued in the BBC programme, was that strong crypto
>would and should be used to destablilze U.S. efforts to dominate the New
>World Order. If an I-bomb could destroy the Pentagon, Livermore, Los
>Alamos, and so on, I would press the button tonight. The U.S. military
>machine is vastly more powerful than it needs to be meet the threat of
>invasion of our shores (hint: even Hitler and Tojo were not real threat to
>U.S. shores) and whatever is needed should be done to destabilize and
>sabotage the U.S. industrial war machine.)
>
>The spread of anonymous remailer is already being used to break the back
>of the U.S. war propaganda system. (Given that Lowell Wood's crimes are
>being liberated and sent to non-U.S. sites for their use in defeating the
>war machine).
>
>Cypherpunks stand for making the United States just another bunch of
>contiguous geographic regions.
>
>--Tim May
>
>
There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-12 (Tue, 13 May 1997 01:22:06 +0800) - Sabotaging the U.S. Military-Industrial War Machine - _Tim May \<tcmay@got.net\>_

75
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-05 - Problems with posts
## Header Data
From: "William H. Geiger III" \<whgiii@amaranth.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net<br>
Message Hash: 0c90e383e56f304a3fe79fb78e3316802239121ce4264f1dcf13b59ddd3725f3<br>
Message ID: \<199705051451.JAA00342@mailhub.amaranth.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-05 15:10:29 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 23:10:29 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii@amaranth.com>
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 23:10:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Problems with posts
Message-ID: <199705051451.JAA00342@mailhub.amaranth.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hmmmm I seem to be having some problems with getting my messages posted to
the list (at least they are not showing up back here). :(
This is just a test so please ignore.
Thanks,
- --
- -----------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting Cooking With Warp 4.0
Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
Finger whgiii@amaranth.com for PGP Key and other info
- -----------------------------------------------------------
Tag-O-Matic: Win3.1? For fast relief call 800-3-IBM-OS2.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2
Comment: Registered User E-Secure v1.1 ES000000
iQCVAwUBM24DHo9Co1n+aLhhAQFQAwP+L3AXu9AbQsCuaNroI3UfuyAKGO70MiMM
MD4bxRENaBwRc4A1aU6QsZosbuyRZfOZqCQ67ANI7Ecowfij9rc92wOvl+ePhYjS
ObvDdDoDRpDqBDQ8oVimDkIwXJ8z79xxK6s3F0uevSb4pSlz3MZHrf+BoDxc5L1u
mA403n2n+W8=
=cAdA
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-05 (Mon, 5 May 1997 23:10:29 +0800) - Problems with posts - _"William H. Geiger III" \<whgiii@amaranth.com\>_

87
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-17 - CC fingerprints
## Header Data
From: harka@nycmetro.com<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0cd1e27404977c255b21b91e4c39f0521d34a5c481d665b713fa24d5abeb2ad8<br>
Message ID: \<199705170904.FAA29705@linux.nycmetro.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-17 15:27:23 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 23:27:23 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: harka@nycmetro.com
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 23:27:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: CC fingerprints
Message-ID: <199705170904.FAA29705@linux.nycmetro.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
http://cnn.com/TECH/9705/16/t_t/magnetic.security/index.html
Catching counterfeit credit cards
Researchers find way to check magnetic 'fingerprints'
ST. LOUIS, Missouri (CNN) -- Researchers at Washington University here have
come up with a way to spot counterfeit credit cards by detecting the unique
"fingerprint" on the back of each card.
<snip>
Their solution, called the Magneprint system, reads the millions of tiny
magnetic particles, which are unique on each card, says Professor Ronald
Indeck.
Each magnetic stripe on the card has two important areas. The first looks
like a bar code, which contains the account number. The rest is a random
pattern of magnetic information -- a signature that is different on every
card and impossible to duplicate, Indeck says.
<snip>
The inventors say the Magneprint system can be used to stop other kinds of
fraud, involving airline tickets, currency, and checks.
It's expected to be made available to card companies later this year.
==========================================================================
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2
iQEVAwUBM311bjltEBIEF0MBAQHq1Af9EIo98F80FaAbiYJv9JBfR8QIFpwIHnCG
HPZAyRFPz8Yx1AMApGc0i5JckqanriXzAEE/+3K1YiLcpL0X0yxUEA6wBc31nYG1
6so/mWdeaBMy81/Coa+534vPcWpPN4/TyBsiGitNzeh4dVit2yYg/AwW2NV092B2
p6ERgI91UtIxVov18CG2wpt960H2q4QNGnl5pI43xhHeutsZHvt97eDpoMTqaR6v
nam1TpolXxQSxcubmOfUFyvI1hZN3bUx472OnfcrtuuNHMPsoGX11J9Z2NtTzwjx
FbcpDJ0KCQtTlY1ViGHI60XqFFFWXUQ/pTZgXF8bVeOsIzOkicU0Ug==
=Y3gr
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-17 (Sat, 17 May 1997 23:27:23 +0800) - CC fingerprints - _harka@nycmetro.com_
+ 1997-05-18 (Sun, 18 May 1997 09:16:18 +0800) - [Re: CC fingerprints](/archive/1997/05/5bdfec9754248edd5b34fe51f5ef001cb1125c26d153292733771ef6802b2d44) - _Adam Shostack \<adam@homeport.org\>_
+ 1997-05-18 (Sun, 18 May 1997 10:13:29 +0800) - [Re: CC fingerprints](/archive/1997/05/1b9fd7b72192999dfffdcafba3f2dccf037f4a7e2a508504be22aaca2ef128c3) - _Alan \<alano@teleport.com\>_

60
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-19 - New rules re money transfers to foreign locations
## Header Data
From: Greg Broiles \<gbroiles@netbox.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net<br>
Message Hash: 0d289b4cea2547a16753441bca3f69c70edb8a6634530db4d38e280411d8ea32<br>
Message ID: \<3.0.1.32.19970519014545.008a2c30@mail.io.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-19 08:59:00 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 16:59:00 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Greg Broiles <gbroiles@netbox.com>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 16:59:00 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: New rules re money transfers to foreign locations
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970519014545.008a2c30@mail.io.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
The NY Times reports that new rules will be announced Monday which will
require non-bank financial institutions (like check-cashing stores, Western
Union, etc.) to report transfers of $750 or greater with a foreign
destination. (The old reporting threshold was $10K.) According to the
article, the new regulation is expected to generate approximately one
million additional forms per year for FINCEN/Treasury to process, and
require 25,000 such NBFI's to register with Treasury. The regulation will
take effect in 90 days after a public comment period. It does not apply to
cash, instruments like traveler's checks, or domestic transfers; it also
does not apply to banks themselves. (All of those mediums of transport are
covered by different rules with other reporting requirements.)
See <http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/national/drug-cartels.html>.
--
Greg Broiles | US crypto export control policy in a nutshell:
gbroiles@netbox.com |
http://www.io.com/~gbroiles | Export jobs, not crypto.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-19 (Mon, 19 May 1997 16:59:00 +0800) - New rules re money transfers to foreign locations - _Greg Broiles \<gbroiles@netbox.com\>_

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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-18 - Re: Crypto, C4 Explosives, and Destroying the Infrastructure
## Header Data
From: Steve Schear \<azur@netcom.com\><br>
To: Tim May \<cypherpunks@algebra.com<br>
Message Hash: 0d49c9cd2215c9e419662e3f5d511ed78c379f0da9b2dc25e4fd79a5d0f4c405<br>
Message ID: \<v03007803afa50d9f1b3f@[10.0.2.15]\><br>
Reply To: \<v03007801afa4f88363e2@[207.167.93.63]\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-18 20:02:34 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 04:02:34 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Steve Schear <azur@netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 04:02:34 +0800
To: Tim May <cypherpunks@algebra.com
Subject: Re: Crypto, C4 Explosives, and Destroying the Infrastructure
In-Reply-To: <v03007801afa4f88363e2@[207.167.93.63]>
Message-ID: <v03007803afa50d9f1b3f@[10.0.2.15]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
>However, there are a couple of *obvious* errors. My supposition is that he
>"pulled his punches" a little, choosing to gloss over certain things which
>would have made the "terrorist" essentially impossible to detect. (The most
>glaring error, which he surely knew better about, was to assert that NSA
>could break any cipher if given enough time and computer power.)
>
>I surmise from how he altered factual details about the world of
>cryptography--though masterfully--that he also subtly tweaked some details
>in other areas. I, for example, don't plan to use the cyclotrimethylene
>trinitramine version of C4, allegedly free of the usual odor-producing
>impurities, for any of my sanitization efforts! (He also describes some of
>the flaws in the bombs used in the World Trade Center and Oklahoma City
>bombings...any aspiring terrorist should certainly read this novel for some
>ideas...taking into account the deliberate errors he inserted, as with the
>crypto errors!)
>
>A real explosives expert would see in his detailed descriptions of where
>and how to get the M6 Special Engineer Electrical Blasting Caps and the
>M-112 Charge Demolition Blocks the same kind of subtle tweakings of the
>truth that he put into his convincing descriptions of cryptanalysis.
>
Any intelligent terrorist knows that explosives are old hat.
Perhaps this is an opportunity for CPs to join in and re-write the book
with a more factual basis and outcome, are re-publish on-line. I volunteer
to OCR.
-Steve
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-18 (Mon, 19 May 1997 01:54:38 +0800) - [Crypto, C4 Explosives, and Destroying the Infrastructure](/archive/1997/05/f0557bb83f116ddc13804cb4bd77c386954fc55fceafd877ee8534e67a7cf7bf) - _Tim May \<tcmay@got.net\>_
+ 1997-05-18 (Mon, 19 May 1997 04:02:34 +0800) - Re: Crypto, C4 Explosives, and Destroying the Infrastructure - _Steve Schear \<azur@netcom.com\>_

80
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-07 - Re: IBM's New Algo
## Header Data
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0dd49947f9381c61b02ebbf38b367d33d97d8d969c25834ee440897f2035d16d<br>
Message ID: \<0kic7D1w165w@bwalk.dm.com\><br>
Reply To: \<1.5.4.32.19970507114307.00873568@pop.pipeline.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-07 23:47:19 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 07:47:19 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 07:47:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: IBM's New Algo
In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19970507114307.00873568@pop.pipeline.com>
Message-ID: <0kic7D1w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
John Young <jya@pipeline.com> writes:
> The New York Times, May 7, 1997, p. D5.
>
> I.B.M. Researchers Develop A New Encryption Formula
...
> The system is based on a problem that has defied solution
> by mathematicians for 150 years, I.B.M. said.
I had an interesting conversation a few weeks ago with a friend who has
a closed-form solution to a well-known problem that's been unsolved for
about that long. He has no intention of publishing it, but he has already
made quite a bit of $$$ on it. :-)
I've known the guy for a number of years and it's not the first time he gets
a good result and makes money on it instead of yet another paper in a
refereed journal. In general, lots more is known to some people than is
published. E.g. it's possible that some of stuff I did for my Ph.D. thesis
was done by the British crypto people but never made it to the open literatre.
> Mr. Schneier said that the cryptographic formulas now in
> use were already robust enough. The biggest challenge, he
> said, is creating security systems in the real world that
> are not vulnerable to hackers.
>
> "Cryptography is a lot more than math" he said.
Let me get this straight - Schneier claims that factoring is secure now and
will remain secure in the future?
---
Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-07 (Wed, 7 May 1997 20:06:12 +0800) - [IBM's New Algo](/archive/1997/05/7b660004adfd0d5a832520b1f73f4f031883eb42c8813dd7eebe6de642cc7fda) - _John Young \<jya@pipeline.com\>_
+ 1997-05-07 (Thu, 8 May 1997 07:47:19 +0800) - Re: IBM's New Algo - _dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)_
+ 1997-05-08 (Thu, 8 May 1997 09:05:37 +0800) - [Re: IBM's New Algo](/archive/1997/05/cc3fd8874c116db12c04bfad8f532c4139f865db8b8931ad65ea3a6a03af37bd) - _ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)_
+ 1997-05-08 (Thu, 8 May 1997 11:28:33 +0800) - [Re: IBM's New Algo](/archive/1997/05/73aad154f1e8cbb2795d77f3f27226eb6998eda466fd74e31ac3ee072cae7a89) - _dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)_

56
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-05 - Re: Rape, death and XS4ALL
## Header Data
From: Alex de Joode \<usura@replay.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net<br>
Message Hash: 0de56d28e265920a3f0182bf3a899bf479254ea7d409e43d9afc341e4c025356<br>
Message ID: \<199705051650.SAA14830@basement.replay.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-05 18:22:25 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 02:22:25 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Alex de Joode <usura@replay.com>
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 02:22:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Rape, death and XS4ALL
Message-ID: <199705051650.SAA14830@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Paul Bradley sez:
: > Perhaps we should further expose XS4ALL's hypocricy by renting from the
: > web space and putting up some pages they won't like.
: I think this is an excellent idea, I`ll call or mail them in a few days
: to find out their pricing structure.
30 Guilders a month (approx 17 USD a month)
you get 5mb for your homepage.
--
-aj-
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-05 (Tue, 6 May 1997 02:22:25 +0800) - Re: Rape, death and XS4ALL - _Alex de Joode \<usura@replay.com\>_

80
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-11 - Re: The War is Underway (fwd)
## Header Data
From: Kent Crispin \<kent@songbird.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks \<cypherpunks@toad.com\><br>
Message Hash: 0e1e0fbeecdd6f631716fd2429b27ab48f5a4c015e27b0509d8545a5577a8af9<br>
Message ID: \<19970511160550.21115@bywater.songbird.com\><br>
Reply To: \<3.0.32.19970511130456.0071d4b4@netcom13.netcom.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-11 23:25:45 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 07:25:45 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Kent Crispin <kent@songbird.com>
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 07:25:45 +0800
To: cypherpunks <cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Re: The War is Underway (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970511130456.0071d4b4@netcom13.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <19970511160550.21115@bywater.songbird.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
On Sun, May 11, 1997 at 01:18:43PM -0700, Lucky Green wrote:
> At 04:10 PM 5/10/97 -0700, Kent Crispin wrote:
>
> >Hence the value of the "Crypto is Cool" approach. A valuable addition
> >would be crypto packages designed for high school kids. All my many
> >nieces and nephews are on the net...
>
> I usually don't reply to these kind of posts, but since you have mentioned
> this before
Actually, you must be confusing me with someone else -- I can't, to
my recollection, remember ever having said anything about this
before. (Of course, you could always go back in the archives and check.)
I was just responding to the idea mention by someone else (except
I think they worded it "ciphers are cool" or something like that).
> and since you obviously still don't deem it appropriate to get
> yourself up to speed by reading the archives, your idea has been discussed
> and tried.
With a memory like mine (and yours too, apparently) reading the
archives would do no good -- I can't remember a thousandth of all the
stuff I read, anyway.
> People won't use crypto unless it is either transparent, meaning put there
> *for* them by the OS vendor/application developer or because the see a need
> for using it. The few fanatics that use crypto because "it is cool" are
> inconsequential when the objective is bringing crypto to the masses.
I guess we are doomed, then.
--
Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited",
kent@songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-11 (Mon, 12 May 1997 07:01:53 +0800) - [Re: The War is Underway (fwd)](/archive/1997/05/de510d4cadbab2d6f6158b0fe95dc5789eea3402972b4ddbcb2db21b686d32b4) - _Lucky Green \<shamrock@netcom.com\>_
+ 1997-05-11 (Mon, 12 May 1997 07:25:45 +0800) - Re: The War is Underway (fwd) - _Kent Crispin \<kent@songbird.com\>_

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# 1997-05-13 - PGP Prestidigitizes RSA...
## Header Data
From: Robert Hettinga \<rah@shipwright.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0e24f0f53d49d89ed9ca5963da49760e175c376cc462f5eb777b01b60be88283<br>
Message ID: \<v030209bbaf9e396fd9c9@[139.167.130.246]\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-13 17:28:48 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 01:28:48 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Robert Hettinga <rah@shipwright.com>
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 01:28:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: PGP Prestidigitizes RSA...
Message-ID: <v030209bbaf9e396fd9c9@[139.167.130.246]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
To paraphrase the cypherpunks maxim: "Cypherpunk fellow-travellers hack
corporations"...
Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
--- begin forwarded text
MIME-version: 1.0
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by listserv.aol.com id
LAA18484
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 11:03:31 -0500
Reply-To: Law & Policy of Computer Communications
<CYBERIA-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM>
Sender: Law & Policy of Computer Communications
<CYBERIA-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM>
From: "Kevin J. Connolly" <kconnolly@EVW.COM>
Subject: Re: Encryption--RSA v. PGP
To: CYBERIA-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
There are several additional bits and pieces to report.
First, RSA is not seeking to enjoin the distribution of PGP products. The
lawsuit is seeking solely to revise the royalties to be paid.
Second, it can be said that the suit represents something of a stretch.
RSA (the original patent holder) assigned the patent to Public Key
Partners, whose membership consists of RSA Data Security, Inc. and
Cylink Corporation. Public Key Partners had granted a license to
ViaCrypt, Inc., which was acquired by Lemcom, Inc. Then Pretty Good
Privacy, Inc. acquired Lemcom and performed a reverse subsidiary
merger, with Lemcom as the surviving entity. Lemcom then changed its
corporate style to (surprise!) Pretty Good Privacy, Inc. Cylink--the other
half of Public Key Partners-- was not consulted before RSA purported to
terminate the license and sue PGP.
Third, It appears that one major reason for RSA's purported termination
of the license agreement was to get around the very broad arbitration
clause in the license agreement.
Finally, it appears that RSA commenced the suit in reaction to PGP's
development of algorithm-independent encryption. This innovation would
make it possible for PGP to embrace not only the RSA Algorithm but also
Diffy-Helman, El Gamal (a variant of Diffy-Helman), elliptical curve
cryptography or even n-dimensional lattice vector schemes. In the
meantime, however. PGP continues and will continue to incorporate the
RSA algorithm, if for no other reason than downward compatibility and
the need to continue to support the significant number of existing
RSA-based keypairs.
It should be noted that any bias apparent in this posting stems from the
failure of RSA's counsel to return my calls, even though I identified
myself and the fact that I am preparing an article for print in a significant
news weekly (which I will not identify until and unless the article actually
runs). However, I did identify the publication to RSA's counsel, and he
chose to let me get my information from PGP, Cylink, and other industry
sources.
Kevin J. Connolly
The opinions expressed in this communication are those of the author,
not of Eaton & Van Winkle.
This communication is not legal advice. If it were legal advice, it would
be accompanied by an invoice.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2
iQCVAwUBM3iC4jQOqu5WyMfpAQECGQP+IkL0fslR6M/GSHKNdrnCVqQNoYllXurt
qcPM0okSKCGEnySvBdeHJE2nf/7nn/CpYtFiPe36hkbfplpjOE4cRgupbr57AL9V
kxQluZQdJwJJKNwXrdhiCHHBleM7l7RUSSwIRovsMxy6+4Zd3MNweGKX7wfmFnX8
yRFOV1z7CGs=
=W5P9
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--- end forwarded text
-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-13 (Wed, 14 May 1997 01:28:48 +0800) - PGP Prestidigitizes RSA... - _Robert Hettinga \<rah@shipwright.com\>_

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# 1997-05-04 - Re: Rape, death and XS4ALL
## Header Data
From: mpd@netcom.com (Mike Duvos)<br>
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net<br>
Message Hash: 0e4e121706c47a9e86e6974ea84357b6f34e4951a9809a1cf5d5720c054b8e0e<br>
Message ID: \<199705041702.KAA18066@netcom20.netcom.com\><br>
Reply To: \<Pine.LNX.3.91.970504164841.304I-100000@fatmans.demon.co.uk\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-04 17:20:09 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 01:20:09 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: mpd@netcom.com (Mike Duvos)
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 01:20:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Rape, death and XS4ALL
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.91.970504164841.304I-100000@fatmans.demon.co.uk>
Message-ID: <199705041702.KAA18066@netcom20.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Paul Bradley writes:
> Just to give you some overview of the fuck ups we now have governing the
> UK I present a list of proposals Tony Blair and his motley crew have made in
> the last year:
> Mandatory minimum sentencing for repeat offenders regardless of the
> opinion of the judge.
> State set curfews for all children under 16 regardless of their parents
> wishes.
> Parents to be held responsible for the crimes of their children if the
> children repeat offend.
> Several vague allusions towards internet censorship schemes or mandatory
> web page rating using PICS.
> Minimum wage for full time employees, regardless of the empolyees skills
> or the wishes of the employer.
> Further action to prevent "bias" and "discrimination" in the workplace,
> eg. "Employ this unskilled [racially insensitive term] and we`ll lower
> your corporation tax 2%"
> Further plans for yet more CCTV cameras in public places.
> Mandatory ID cards for citizens (This one sounds like a joke, believe me
> it is not).
> A ban on all handguns even when registered (currently all pistols above
> .22 are banned and all guns have to be registered in a process whereby if
> the applicant for a certificate has any history of political dissention
> or crime (eg. Smoking a joint, the ultimate sin against society) the
> certificate will be refused.
> Yet more spending on welfare to support the pieces of shit in the gutter
> I pass every day.
Blair has learned his Clinton lessons well. When I see the evolution
of so-called multi-party systems where all candidates will fuck with
your rights equally well, it makes me wax fondly back to the old Soviet
Union. Although there was only one party, the citizens were at least
able to vote "None of the Above."
I wonder how many seats would be filled in our government if the last
step in the electoral process was a ratification of a single candidate
by the voters.
--
Mike Duvos $ PGP 2.6 Public Key available $
mpd@netcom.com $ via Finger. $
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-04 (Mon, 5 May 1997 00:12:55 +0800) - [Rape, death and XS4ALL](/archive/1997/05/84914a9b774fe15fb543cfd1b176243423fdc9b9f5855c783d4e858bc3129105) - _Paul Bradley \<paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk\>_
+ 1997-05-04 (Mon, 5 May 1997 01:20:09 +0800) - Re: Rape, death and XS4ALL - _mpd@netcom.com (Mike Duvos)_
+ 1997-05-04 (Mon, 5 May 1997 03:45:20 +0800) - [Re: Rape, death and XS4ALL](/archive/1997/05/b1af424a62598423adcc6d68e905bc74e101ef1a0ed71f251cf63c1e1bade519) - _ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)_
+ 1997-05-05 (Mon, 5 May 1997 20:43:16 +0800) - [Re: Rape, death and XS4ALL](/archive/1997/05/8791dbb385032ea4cd16c83d0f1eaec78a40a8bd0c8a30662a17b87136eb75bf) - _Paul Bradley \<paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk\>_
+ 1997-05-05 (Tue, 6 May 1997 04:35:07 +0800) - [Re: Rape, death and XS4ALL](/archive/1997/05/4092399a6b1dbe251bd4d9c7293826f4aff48fcae8d2fb68c5735915cdf2e594) - _ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)_

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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-13 - Re: Copy of: UK TTP Paper - For Your Information
## Header Data
From: Hodge Podge \<hodgepodge@nym.alias.net\><br>
To: Theodor.SCHLICKMANN@bxl.dg13.cec.be<br>
Message Hash: 0e6037cd2e5808c5ecc4f34ca0d485ad970c8e53ffdca9233447f68132f6cd4c<br>
Message ID: \<19970513145014.13839.qmail@nym.alias.net\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-13 15:02:30 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 23:02:30 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Hodge Podge <hodgepodge@nym.alias.net>
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 23:02:30 +0800
To: Theodor.SCHLICKMANN@bxl.dg13.cec.be
Subject: Re: Copy of: UK TTP Paper - For Your Information
Message-ID: <19970513145014.13839.qmail@nym.alias.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
On Mon, 12 May 1997 Theodor.SCHLICKMANN@BXL.DG13.cec.be wrote:
> As further discussed in the answer to question 4, we can
> confirm that we do not propose that the user be required to escrow his
> private signature key (however generated) with a TTP.
[snip]
> If, however, the TTP either generates the
> confidentiality key pair for a user, or, for example, certifies a
> self-generated public key for confidentiality, then escrow of the
> associated private key would be required under our proposals.
This doesn't make much sense to me. If I were to use such a UTP[*]
then I'd simply get my signature key authenticated and then use that to
sign all my encryption keys rather than getting the UTP to sign them. So
I'd get the benefits of a recognized authentication on my keys without
having to worry about key surrender to governments. We don't _need_ to
have anyone authenticate our encryption keys, just the signature keys.
Or am I missing something? (Other than the obvious fact that this is just
the thin end of the wedge)
- -- HP
[*] UTP == Untrusted Third Party
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2
Charset: noconv
iQDzAwUBM3hStrmgWaN4MfkFAQH0WQbwg2Nj7+DdY5LXnqinjjhiJQCVbumMHbpD
yGHsoJJDY8BdvgtfPKBqFWSZ1OCvqYaM2M87xK5lF6qdVyESVOcr9GKuB3Cpafhk
WPwBOjcdYbL+WzsAo5T8gUH7HFv1dGI0/lMfsc42ik/Wl54YIWeWQr5ptDXpABd7
sSbgr0jjPKoqO2pyAYPS9c3mXooES99zRBDB5edWPf4ACF0u8DcMawZUuAcD+hTH
ILZV80VAnOIKKidRqNry5z90/z0L8F3qVklLRYX5qGyxZE60PEbECSE2lxjio/kh
PfbpoQCb
=ETNt
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-13 (Tue, 13 May 1997 23:02:30 +0800) - Re: Copy of: UK TTP Paper - For Your Information - _Hodge Podge \<hodgepodge@nym.alias.net\>_

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layout: default
---
# 1997-05-02 - But thank God we live in Amerika...
## Header Data
From: nobody@huge.cajones.com (Huge Cajones Remailer)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0ead5eb3b7304e10efb75cc9b55d6cc90556be662a32d788e54dee3651dac0d1<br>
Message ID: \<199705020430.VAA16639@fat.doobie.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-02 04:50:41 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 12:50:41 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: nobody@huge.cajones.com (Huge Cajones Remailer)
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 12:50:41 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: But thank God we live in Amerika...
Message-ID: <199705020430.VAA16639@fat.doobie.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
An Average Citizen wrote:
> Just guess what the fine is for not having 2" high
> numbers on my mailbox.
> $1000/20days in jail. Must be a fucking felony.
Gee, and when Tim May said he was a felon, then I thought maybe
he was murdering children, or something.
Actually, maybe Tim *is* murdering children, but the authorities
are leaving him alone because the numbers on his mailbox (written
in the blood of children) are 2" high, leading them to believe
that he is a model citizen.
If Orwell had put a reference to a law such as this, with severe
penalities for illegal-sized mailbox numbers in his work, "1984",
he would have been laughed at as an unrealistic lunatic.
(Not that he wasn't, anyway.)
Around the world, conspiracy theorists and psycho-thriller
writers are starving to death because they can't compete with
reality and the nightly news.
Me? I used to be an activist, now I'm just another guy/gal
taking violin lessons from Nero. (We meet Tuesdays at Motel 6.
Come on by, we'll leave a light-bulb joke on for you.)
FiddleMonger
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-02 (Fri, 2 May 1997 12:50:41 +0800) - But thank God we live in Amerika... - _nobody@huge.cajones.com (Huge Cajones Remailer)_

64
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layout: default
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# 1997-05-02 - Booby traps, but no anarchist writings
## Header Data
From: Lou Poppler \<lwp@mail.msen.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net<br>
Message Hash: 0eb2ed9947d5092d35875ac9e0156c933af0bd93d97894c79664586356cb502b<br>
Message ID: \<Pine.BSI.3.92.970502122952.3001A-100000@conch.msen.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-02 16:50:06 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 00:50:06 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Lou Poppler <lwp@mail.msen.com>
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 00:50:06 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Booby traps, but no anarchist writings
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.92.970502122952.3001A-100000@conch.msen.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
>From today's NYT
http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/national/ny-explosives.html
[N] EW YORK -- A Bronx man who booby-trapped his
apartment with homemade bombs accidentally blew his
left hand off Thursday morning, the police said,
[snip]
Just what Saperstein -- who has a criminal record dating
back to 1983 for weapons possession, disorderly conduct
and drug possession -- was doing with all the explosives
puzzled investigators.
"There's no indication he was involved in any group,"
said a police investigator, who spoke on the condition
of anonymity. "There were no rantings or anarchist
writings of any kind."
[snip]
[end of quoted material]
Good thing this guy didn't have a folder of old cypherpunks messages on a
hard drive! Then he'd *really* be in trouble I guess.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-02 (Sat, 3 May 1997 00:50:06 +0800) - Booby traps, but no anarchist writings - _Lou Poppler \<lwp@mail.msen.com\>_
+ 1997-05-02 (Sat, 3 May 1997 06:50:14 +0800) - [Re: Booby traps, but no anarchist writings](/archive/1997/05/811a4f2e6f2cce1788807ca2d76341abc375150aede20f6a13fa44bf53b99e95) - _dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)_

65
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-13 - Real Terrorism
## Header Data
From: Bill Stewart \<stewarts@ix.netcom.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0edf1db6ca261433b6f21aad3def3e7316f0cacc2227597494bab555bd6b5907<br>
Message ID: \<3.0.1.32.19970513105933.00620c90@popd.ix.netcom.com\><br>
Reply To: \<199705111714.NAA21881@dhp.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-13 18:22:48 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 02:22:48 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Bill Stewart <stewarts@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 02:22:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Real Terrorism
In-Reply-To: <199705111714.NAA21881@dhp.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970513105933.00620c90@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 01:14 PM 5/11/97 -0400, lucifer Anonymous Remailer wrote:
> AMMONIUM TRIIODIDE CRYSTALS
Sigh. Terror isn't our business, and any handbook that
can't tell ammonium tri-iodide from nitrogen tri-iodide
is more dangerous to its readers than anyone else.
If you _really_ wanted to scare governments,
you'd start publishing papers saying things like
AMENDMENT 1 - Congress shall make no law ......
or
n = p*q , p and q prime.
c = m ** e mod n
# Thanks; Bill
# Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts@ix.netcom.com
# You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp
# (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-11 (Mon, 12 May 1997 01:39:30 +0800) - [No Subject](/archive/1997/05/bb9b0bb599e8f3c925277b8fa7b68e5fb3112a7ac2b15f79fc644ad3284b3448) - _lucifer@dhp.com (lucifer Anonymous Remailer)_
+ 1997-05-13 (Wed, 14 May 1997 02:22:48 +0800) - Real Terrorism - _Bill Stewart \<stewarts@ix.netcom.com\>_

173
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-03 - Re: Bypassing the Digicash Patents
## Header Data
From: Robert Hettinga \<rah@shipwright.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net<br>
Message Hash: 0f8a8d53a1bc28d5fc832a36fef93dfc323700725a149fed6145222b18d58804<br>
Message ID: \<v0302095daf90224fa770@[139.167.130.247]\><br>
Reply To: \<199705022130.OAA01562@crypt.hfinney.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-03 01:37:58 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 09:37:58 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Robert Hettinga <rah@shipwright.com>
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 09:37:58 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Bypassing the Digicash Patents
In-Reply-To: <199705022130.OAA01562@crypt.hfinney.com>
Message-ID: <v0302095daf90224fa770@[139.167.130.247]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 5:30 pm -0400 on 5/2/97, Hal Finney wrote:
> Bob, if I understand you correctly, you've suggested that digital
> bearer instruments will in the long run actually be more efficient than
> conventional book entry based transaction models. Anonymity will be
> cheaper than identified transactions.
Exactly. In the same way that physical bearer certificates were cheaper to
use than handwritten book entries. Before telegraphy, anyway. It was
telegraphy, more than anything else, which forced the creation of
book-entry settlement (using, actually, encrypted messages and prearranged
authentication codes), because you could do trades at a distance, which you
couldn't do with paper certificates. Database-enabled accounting was what
killed large and abstract value physical bearer certificates once and for
all. Especially when you could swap data sets with tape or disk packs from
machine to machine. (Notice I didn't say tax law. The book entries had to
be there before you could tax them. :-). Law follows reality, not the other
way around. We get the government we deserve [afford], a constituency of
idiots will elect one, and all that tosh.)
I claim that as you get closer to completely offline digital bearer
certificates, you bring back the competitive advantage of bearer
certificates. Right now, we're pretty much in the on-line digital bearer
certificate stage of things, but I'm claiming that even *that* makes it
possible to supplant very large pieces of the book entry hierarchy we've
managed to build in the industrial age. Particularly in the case of
peer-to-peer transactions over great physical -- or regulatory :-) --
distances.
> But, if digital bearer certificates of all kinds are, as you suggest,
> cheaper and more efficient than conventional ones, why can't we just
> use ordinary non-blinded digital instruments and ignore the identifying
> information?
I claim that the very futility of tracing those certificates creates the
greatest saving, especially if the only thing you really care about is
whether the trade will clear. The primary reason for keeping archives of
transactions is so that you can hire a cop to hunt down someone and send
them to jail when they stiff you. If you can't hunt them down, you don't
have to pay the cop. :-). Cops cost lots, as most people on cypherpunks
would agree. With a completely anonymous system like Chaum's, you *really*
have to trust the reputation of entity backing the certificates, but you
don't give a fig about who gives you the money itself. "Cash is King",
right? Since there are many more buyers and sellers than certificate
underwriters, and since the underwriter only keeps records of spent
certificates and not all transactions (and is probably expiring keys and
issues of certificates to keep the on-line storage load manageable), then
at least two sets of transaction book entries (those of the buyer and
seller) disappear, and the bookeeping load of the issuer is much less than
that of a typical book-entry intermediary like a clearinghouse. Not to
mention the offsetting book-entries of the clearing system linking multiple
clearing entities. Actually, that's more an artifact of a geodesic network,
and not of a digital bearer certifcate transaction system itself.
> This makes them less attractive from the privacy perspective, but what
> about from the point of view of the financial markets? Can they just
> ignore the serial numbers and treat them as the bearer certificates you
> have been talking about? (Don't real bearer certificates often have
> serial numbers on them?)
Yup. Actually, dollar bills have serial numbers. Bearer bonds had serial
numbers. That's how you controlled the amount in circulation, and could
detect some kinds of fraud, because the number of certificates issued is a
published figure. But the serial number's not important from a privacy
perspective once a certificate changes hands several times, especially if
the population of certificates is large, like it is with dollar bills.
Even the coupons, the little bits you hacked off and sent in every quarter
to get paid interest, had serial numbers. However, notice that you didn't
need to know *who* was sending in the coupon. The coupon itself was it's
own proof for redemption. You just sent back a check payable to the person
who sent in the coupon, or if the person, or person's messenger, showed up
physically, you paid cash. Remember $10,000, or $100K bills? That's what
they were primarily for. Cash settlement of things like large bond
transactions. Paper for paper.
Anyway, it's when you start registering certificates, and keeping track of
who owns what, that you get the cost explosion. In that case, you're right.
You could do it without blinding. Dan Simon's cash system for Microsoft
operates kind of like that. You can track the original purchaser at the
initial purchase, but after it's gone through a few secondary trades,
including ones with yourself, tracking them is pretty much impossible.
Chaum's current version of ecash has this, um, feature, which Ian Goldberg
has now conveniently dispatched. Frankly, the model I promote now, with a
book-entry bank as a trustee, has this problem, because you need a
book-entry account at your own bank to bring money on and off the net. Of
course, at some point, you could do this anonymously and in person at a
currency exchange, with a bag of cash. :-). Fortunately, as I said today in
a reply to Adam Back, when you create other assets on the net besides cash,
and can issue them in bearer form, the problem of requiring identity for
authentication goes away, because the book entries are no longer there
there to repudiate.
> Maybe this geodesic market you're talking about (which I don't understand
> at all) could work with current technology?
Moore's Law makes a given public network appear increasingly "geodesic",
like Bucky Fuller's geodesic structures, because nodes (switches,
processors) are comparatively cheaper than lines to build. The geodesic
market is a market which lives on a geodesic network, which, as Moore's law
progresses, creates smaller and smaller financial entities -- eventually
automated ones -- as measured by asset size or cashflow. That's because a
given amount of money, invested in an increasingly larger swarm of
distributed hardware "nodes", can handle more transactions, and/or smaller
amounts of money, as processor prices drop.
I claim that a cash-settled, digital bearer certificate market is what will
function best on a geodesic network, because it costs less to run for the
reasons I outlined above.
I further claim that the most efficient digital bearer certificate is an
anonymous one.
You get anonymity because it's a waste of resources to keep track of people
who pay you in cash. And, if the system is strongly anonymous from the
outset (and perfect pseudonymity is functionally anonymous), you won't even
try.
Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
Lesley Stahl: "You mean *anyone* can set up a web site and compete
with the New York Times?"
Andrew Kantor: "Yes." Stahl: "Isn't that dangerous?"
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-02 (Sat, 3 May 1997 06:16:02 +0800) - [Re: Bypassing the Digicash Patents](/archive/1997/05/7b4df116c2fc2a7bbccc7cc88fa65ed90b193354c08df42e87a340fb0c6f2ea5) - _Hal Finney \<hal@rain.org\>_
+ 1997-05-03 (Sat, 3 May 1997 09:37:58 +0800) - Re: Bypassing the Digicash Patents - _Robert Hettinga \<rah@shipwright.com\>_

82
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-06 - Custom programming, Web site design & development, and more.
## Header Data
From: "DataET Research Data Engineering Technologies" \<dataet@hotmail.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0fb4b22bd75314b236c802774716055f6ab75c1e2352602f59509d89e7c29287<br>
Message ID: \<199705062233.PAA27824@f42.hotmail.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-06 22:53:48 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 06:53:48 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: "DataET Research Data Engineering Technologies" <dataet@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 06:53:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Custom programming, Web site design & development, and more.
Message-ID: <199705062233.PAA27824@f42.hotmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Visit DataET Research, an excellent source for high-quality, but extensively
inexpensive, software development and marketing solutions.
SERVICES:
o Custom Software Development Service
o Custom Database Application Development Service
o Help File / System Development Service
o Installation Program Development Service
o Shareware Distribution & Marketing Service
o Trial Usage Tracking System Development Service
o Web Site Design & Development Service
o Press Release Distribution Service
If you are interested in having a spectacular Web site or customized software
package developed for your organization, VISIT: http://www.dataet.com.
Free cost and time estimates are given.
PRODUCTS:
o VSA2048 Crytography (Encryption) Module
o VSA2048 QuickCrypt (Encryption)
If you are interested in trying out the latest encryption software developed by
DataET Research, VISIT: http://www.dataet.com.
Shareware trial edition versions are available.
DataET Research
Data Engineering Technologies
VISIT: http://www.dataet.com
---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
---------------------------------------------------------
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-06 (Wed, 7 May 1997 06:53:48 +0800) - Custom programming, Web site design & development, and more. - _"DataET Research Data Engineering Technologies" \<dataet@hotmail.com\>_
+ 1997-05-07 (Wed, 7 May 1997 23:53:45 +0800) - [Re: Custom programming, Web site design & development, and more.](/archive/1997/05/5a8049733148e831039814d5c3730d9c1ec7e405148f97e58e031db2b9054388) - _Ray Arachelian \<sunder@brainlink.com\>_
+ 1997-05-08 (Thu, 8 May 1997 09:14:11 +0800) - [Re: Custom programming, Web site design & development, and more.](/archive/1997/05/4c34aff61a8425f8573b2220f46d998480ca03087b1a00c5737dd4cbf72c62af) - _ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)_
+ 1997-05-08 (Thu, 8 May 1997 11:26:24 +0800) - [Re: Custom programming, Web site design & development, and more.](/archive/1997/05/2e75c3cdff2f7d3d71791ce4cc0a6006e00ccae55ddedc7aafddd73fceeeb0d8) - _dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)_

88
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-13 - Re: Enough of this shit already!
## Header Data
From: bennett_t1@popmail.firn.edu<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0fddcc7f2bb65383acc73e5e3247e0258b64fe55eb0b3a210545ba65853950db<br>
Message ID: \<3378E1A5.282B@popmail.firn.edu\><br>
Reply To: \<Pine.SUN.3.91.970513110309.5776E-100000@beast.brainlink.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-13 21:01:50 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 05:01:50 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: bennett_t1@popmail.firn.edu
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 05:01:50 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Enough of this shit already!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970513110309.5776E-100000@beast.brainlink.com>
Message-ID: <3378E1A5.282B@popmail.firn.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Ray Arachelian wrote:
>
> On Tue, 13 May 1997, The Spectre wrote:
>
> > To: cypherpunks@toad.com
> > Date: Tue May 13 09:55:34 1997
> >
> > > Dimi (Closet Homo) isa pimply old dweeb sitting at a Xenix 286
> > > computer masturbating at his own imagined cleverness.
> > >
> >
> > This is the down side to anonymous remailers.. I think if you don't have
> > the balls to say something, don't say it.
> >
> > Obviously, someone is saying something they don't wan't other people to
> > think they think..
> >
> > I am, obviously, tired of adding filters to my mailbox. Please knock off
> > this bullshit. I think whoever posted this is a pimply young asshole
> > sitting on a c64 attempting to masturbate himself but can't find a
> > microscope with high enough magnification.
>
> Agreed. While I will restrain my oppinions of our unfriendly KOTM with a
> doctorate from the KGB, I'm tired of these spams. Yes, they include the
> ones that IMHO come from Vulis, the ones to which Graham replies, the
> anonymous ones that reply to Graham, the permutations of them that
> spam Toto, and these. :(
>
> If you want to rag on Tim or Vulis, please do so, but not by setting up
> spam bots. Granted some of those are funny the first time you see them,
> but automating them makes them as welcome as listening to an annoying fly
> buzzing over and over in your face.
>
> Hell, the nice bomb making spam too is also a bitch being posted here.
> One could give the poster the benefit of the doubt, but it smells quite
> of the tactics used by the Postal fiends that mail child porno to an
> unsuspecting citizen unit, then arrest that citizen unit upon receipt.
> Lets not give the evil onesof the government more horsemen to ride over
> us. :( A url to the stuff and a summary would have sufficed. (And I'll
> restrain myself from saying that this was done by Vulis, though IMHO, it
> smells of his style of spam. :)
Right on. It's nice, and cute the first and second time around,
afterwards, it just get's really annoying.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-13 (Tue, 13 May 1997 22:18:21 +0800) - [Re: Dr. Vulis](/archive/1997/05/6bb7cef8fe57fde4fa9e7106d9054e483d64505346dafd3e5122ea1cd7138184) - _The Spectre \<spectre@nac.net\>_
+ 1997-05-13 (Tue, 13 May 1997 23:34:12 +0800) - [Enough of this shit already!](/archive/1997/05/534490054fa164889790ade7574f6e50857527a19045ba6023279ef1b83761e9) - _Ray Arachelian \<sunder@brainlink.com\>_
+ 1997-05-13 (Wed, 14 May 1997 05:01:50 +0800) - Re: Enough of this shit already! - _bennett_t1@popmail.firn.edu_

61
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-19 - Re: PGP 5.0 beta is out at PGP.com
## Header Data
From: Alan Olsen \<alan@ctrl-alt-del.com\><br>
To: geeman \<geeman@best.com\><br>
Message Hash: 102dc0d77959ab0f0bff81cb91b19e293e27b201d6c8edd4b513a5ad35d4add5<br>
Message ID: \<3.0.2.32.19970519092908.03eecd90@mail.teleport.com\><br>
Reply To: \<3.0.32.19970519074003.006affb0@best.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-19 16:48:00 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 00:48:00 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Alan Olsen <alan@ctrl-alt-del.com>
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 00:48:00 +0800
To: geeman <geeman@best.com>
Subject: Re: PGP 5.0 beta is out at PGP.com
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970519074003.006affb0@best.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19970519092908.03eecd90@mail.teleport.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 07:45 AM 5/19/97 -0700, geeman wrote:
>and if they encrypted or eliminated the feature that logs all my
>pgp-encrypted traffic.
Probably need to test that. It is a pretty disturbing development.
Has anyone asked PGP inc. why that "feature" is there? (Or are they just
going to hide it better in the future.)
Ya can't trust anyone anymore...
---
| "Bill Clinton - Bringing back the sixties one Nixon at a time." |
|"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: |
| mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man |
|`finger -l alano@teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.|
| http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com|
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-19 (Mon, 19 May 1997 23:03:09 +0800) - [Re: PGP 5.0 beta is out at PGP.com](/archive/1997/05/290d06834bc24a60e55abaac5870fd1eaa020672bdc054b7852c2262802769b3) - _geeman \<geeman@best.com\>_
+ 1997-05-19 (Tue, 20 May 1997 00:48:00 +0800) - Re: PGP 5.0 beta is out at PGP.com - _Alan Olsen \<alan@ctrl-alt-del.com\>_

72
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-23 - Re: Police & military access
## Header Data
From: Kent Crispin \<kent@songbird.com\><br>
To: Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer \<cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com\><br>
Message Hash: 103a49031bb38158ca9db837896d0c43792e4d4e5e6b23a3e4c6bac5c6ed35e8<br>
Message ID: \<19970522232331.08458@bywater.songbird.com\><br>
Reply To: \<199705230204.VAA18264@einstein.ssz.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-23 06:40:38 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:40:38 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Kent Crispin <kent@songbird.com>
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 14:40:38 +0800
To: Cypherpunks Distributed Remailer <cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com>
Subject: Re: Police & military access
In-Reply-To: <199705230204.VAA18264@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <19970522232331.08458@bywater.songbird.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
On Thu, May 22, 1997 at 09:04:15PM -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
> Hi,
>
> It occured to me that if the police have no civil liberties extending beyond
> that of a citizen and citizens are not legaly permitted access to military
> hardware then neither should the police.
[...]
> If a police officer can buy body armor and automatic weapons for self
> defence then so can a citizen.
[...]
> Do police have any civil rights not endowed to a individual citizen?
No. But on the job, doing their state assigned duties, they have
access to instrumentalities not available to private citizens or
off-duty police. "On" and "off" duty may sometimes be a little fuzzy
in practice, but the principle is clear. It isn't a big deal, and
it's not a matter of civil rights. A license to practice medicine
gives you the ability to prescribe morphine. A certain class of
drivers license lets you drive a school bus full of children.
--
Kent Crispin "No reason to get excited",
kent@songbird.com the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint: B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44 61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-23 (Fri, 23 May 1997 10:56:36 +0800) - [Police & military access](/archive/1997/05/a6c5bfd62428d1a9a231d159d3399dc2286a03bae2135e2bd83aec12e739828d) - _Jim Choate \<ravage@einstein.ssz.com\>_
+ 1997-05-23 (Fri, 23 May 1997 14:40:38 +0800) - Re: Police & military access - _Kent Crispin \<kent@songbird.com\>_
+ 1997-05-23 (Sat, 24 May 1997 06:26:53 +0800) - [Re: Police & military access](/archive/1997/05/76ecad4106b68384ab0efb3f20b0d4a326263c94ff829f2be757106b1176666d) - _Greg Broiles \<gbroiles@netbox.com\>_

68
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-16 - Re: I Treat All My Enemies Equally
## Header Data
From: Rick Osborne \<osborne@gateway.grumman.com\><br>
To: TruthMonger \<cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 108801c051235dc8b9a3fba51ce1b343e1136a7131e5638cb809edd16b39b9d7<br>
Message ID: \<3.0.1.32.19970516050700.00a6a100@gateway.grumman.com\><br>
Reply To: \<199705160833.CAA27181@wombat.sk.sympatico.ca\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-16 09:35:55 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 17:35:55 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Rick Osborne <osborne@gateway.grumman.com>
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 17:35:55 +0800
To: TruthMonger <cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: I Treat All My Enemies Equally
In-Reply-To: <199705160833.CAA27181@wombat.sk.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970516050700.00a6a100@gateway.grumman.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Someone anonymous, claiming to be TruthMonger, wrote:
>To borrow an analogy from another thread, if the government spams
>enough cypherpunks with a few Kilobytes here and there, they will
>eventually raise the ire of a Rick Osborne enough that he will
>send them back a few Gigabytes in return. And if Ross Wright's
>computer gets caught in the crossfire...
Now, if you had used anyone but Ross in that example, I might have agreed
with your point. ;) [[[ Seriously though, before it begins to seem as
thought I have a personal vendetta against Mr Wright, I shall put it to
rest with an emphatic *I do not*. I like to think I'm mature enough to
separate my opionion of a person from my opinion of their opinions. ]]]
TruthMonger does bring up a good point, though, again proving that I am
indeed a self-centered asshole. In all of the glorious "Go Internet! Down
with the evil spam!" hype lately, I'd forgotten that point A to point B
isn't a straight line. To send a GB or so across to, for example, Sanford,
it might indeed traipse across Ross' server, for which I'm sure Ross would
curse my name thoroughly. Hmm... this means I need to figure something
else out ... I really should go and cancel that pamphlet drop ...
_________ o s b o r n e @ g a t e w a y . g r u m m a n . c o m _________
"And my middle name used to be helping people, The 'helping people'
Tick."
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-16 (Fri, 16 May 1997 16:58:02 +0800) - [Re: I Treat All My Enemies Equally](/archive/1997/05/8d0eba4bf3c5aeec2efdc5faa798b4ecc7df4104e5f9ce26629609d86a043b03) - _TruthMonger \<tm@dev.null\>_
+ 1997-05-16 (Fri, 16 May 1997 17:35:55 +0800) - Re: I Treat All My Enemies Equally - _Rick Osborne \<osborne@gateway.grumman.com\>_

147
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-18 - index.html
## Header Data
From: Jim Choate \<ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com<br>
Message Hash: 10bc019553b0c3d386dbe1c2370d95420006883ddcebfaa736dfa4067e3d2592<br>
Message ID: \<199705172034.PAA02900@einstein.ssz.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-18 01:23:24 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 09:23:24 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Jim Choate <ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 09:23:24 +0800
To: cypherpunks@EINSTEIN.ssz.com
Subject: index.html
Message-ID: <199705172034.PAA02900@einstein.ssz.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
CNN logo
WORLD navbar
Infoseek/Big Yellow
Pathfinder/Warner Bros
World banner Alan Greenspan. Is he the man with the golden touch?
rule
usa.nightmare --From Danish newspaper Ekstrabladet
DENMARK: U.S. OFFICIALS OVER-REACTED OVER BABY
May 17, 1997
Web posted at: 1:33 p.m. EDT (1733 GMT) restaurant
COPENHAGEN, Denmark (Reuter) -- Denmark's foreign minister said
Saturday that a Danish mother had been foolish to leave her baby
daughter outside a New York restaurant, but U.S. authorities who
jailed her for two days had over-reacted.
Danish newspapers ran front-page pictures of actress Annette
Sorensen and 14-month-old daughter Liv after a New York City judge
Friday dropped criminal charges against the mother.
"USA Nightmare over - Free," Ekstrabladet's headline read."We Won,"
crowed rival tabloid B.T. reunion
Sorensen was jailed for two days last weekend and her baby put into
foster care for four days. She had left Liv parked in a stroller
outside a restaurant while she and the child's American father were
having a drink and watching her through the window.
"It was rash of the mother to leave her child in an American city.
It is not clever but is perhaps excusable because she was not really
aware of the danger," Foreign Minister Niels Helveg Petersen told
B.T.
"But the American authorities over-reacted because this was not a
case of a mother who could be accused of neglecting her child, it's
completely out of proportion," he added.
Ekstrabladet quoted Sorensen, 30, as saying that she bore no
animosity over the affair. denmark
"I'm not quite myself again yet, but I am not bitter toward the
United States (although) I honestly can't say if I will ever come
back again," she told the paper, holding Liv in her arms, at a
champagne celebration in New York's Danish Seamen's Church.
Under terms of the deal reached before Judge Michael Gross by her
attorney, the Manhattan District Attorney and the Danish Consulate,
the criminal charges of endangering the welfare of a child were
dismissed and the case will be closed for good in six months.
"It is our belief that this was a clash of cultures and a lack of
understanding," her attorney Todd Barnet said.
The mother's lawyers said that she did not think twice about leaving
the child outside the restaurant because it was common practice in
Copenhagen.
Sorensen still must appear in Family Court Wednesday but B.T. quoted
a lawyer for the Danish Consulate in New York, Peter
Hessellund-Jensen, as saying that he foresaw no problems.
"I am convinced that the hearing is only a formality," he said.
Sorensen's attorney says she has a plane ticket to leave the United
States May 27. She had been in the country less than 48 hours when
her daughter was taken from her.
Copyright 1997 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. rule
Related stories:
* Charges against Danish mother effectively dropped - May 16, 1997
* Women charged with leaving baby outside while dining in restaurant
- May 13, 1997
* New York returns baby to Danish mother - May 13, 1997
rule Message Boards
Sound off on our message boards
Tell us what you think!
You said it... [INLINE] Alan Greenspan. Is he the man with the
golden touch? rule
To the top
(c) 1997 Cable News Network, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
Terms under which this service is provided to you.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-18 (Sun, 18 May 1997 09:23:24 +0800) - index.html - _Jim Choate \<ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com\>_

59
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# 1997-05-07 - Re: Controversial Commercial ISP for Remailer?
## Header Data
From: Ray Arachelian \<sunder@brainlink.com\><br>
To: Dave Hayes \<dave@kachina.jetcafe.org\><br>
Message Hash: 10c1ce8ae190e750e935e1bcaa6a0c438c7fb39b82da08fecea15bd6f08958b4<br>
Message ID: \<Pine.SUN.3.91.970507181419.999K-100000@beast.brainlink.com\><br>
Reply To: \<199705072207.PAB22259@kachina.jetcafe.org\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-07 22:32:44 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 06:32:44 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Ray Arachelian <sunder@brainlink.com>
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 06:32:44 +0800
To: Dave Hayes <dave@kachina.jetcafe.org>
Subject: Re: Controversial Commercial ISP for Remailer?
In-Reply-To: <199705072207.PAB22259@kachina.jetcafe.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970507181419.999K-100000@beast.brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
On Wed, 7 May 1997, Dave Hayes wrote:
> This was truly a mirrored interchange. I thank you for the opportunity
> to witness my self in you. ;-)
I bet you say that too all the shamans, big boy. :) Sorry, not
interested.
=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian | "So make a move and plead the fifth, |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com| 'cause you can't pleade the first!" |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ | |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin, | For with those which eternal lie, with |.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"| strange aeons, even death may die. |.....
======================== http://www.sundernet.com =========================
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-07 (Thu, 8 May 1997 06:30:35 +0800) - [Re: Controversial Commercial ISP for Remailer?](/archive/1997/05/3ded7d121be12570f8da88619770dcb093f4e30c6c0d89065bcaf28368972e5b) - _Dave Hayes \<dave@kachina.jetcafe.org\>_
+ 1997-05-07 (Thu, 8 May 1997 06:32:44 +0800) - Re: Controversial Commercial ISP for Remailer? - _Ray Arachelian \<sunder@brainlink.com\>_

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# 1997-05-27 - Re: SSN and passport
## Header Data
From: "Mark M." \<markm@voicenet.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net<br>
Message Hash: 110e8e945d78232bd3edd13c41fdbfe3e4670448b50aaaf3375231258ca97376<br>
Message ID: \<Pine.LNX.3.95.970527164552.914A-100000@purple.voicenet.com\><br>
Reply To: \<199705271820.LAA07618@jefferson.hidden.net\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-27 22:09:34 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 06:09:34 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: "Mark M." <markm@voicenet.com>
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 06:09:34 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: SSN and passport
In-Reply-To: <199705271820.LAA07618@jefferson.hidden.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.970527164552.914A-100000@purple.voicenet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
On Tue, 27 May 1997, Anonymous wrote:
> I recently applied for a U.S. passport and, as an experiment,
> entered a SSN of 000-00-0000. The nice lady at the counter informed
> me that it would not be processed unless I provided a valid SSN (which
> gets forwarded to the IRS). It was my understanding that this
> disclosure was voluntary and that another form was available for
> notifying the IRS that a passport had been applied for.
>
> My travel plans didn't allow me the luxury of delaying the
> application process, so I provided the damn number. Does anyone know
> the real rules for this situation? Must passports be cleared with the
> tax goons or do they just want to keep tabs on people travelling
> abroad?
I don't know the reason, but the IRS tax code requires that all passport
applicants supply their SSNs to the IRS. The penalty for failing to
notify is $500. I recently encountered this situation and just left
the SSN blank. After explaining to the lady behind the counter that
I was not required to give my SSN to the State Department, she eventually
accepted the application without the SSN. I sent a letter to the IRS
(address where tax returns are supposed to be sent) explainging the
situation and included my SSN in the letter. I applied for the passport
two months ago and have not been hassled by the IRS. A sample letter
is at ftp.cpsr.org/cpsr/privacy/ssn/passport.ps. There's also more
about this in the SSN FAQ.
Mark
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3
Charset: noconv
iQEVAwUBM4tLwCzIPc7jvyFpAQGI0wf/UVlRi69bn6maj0uF35+GxE6ejT0fhp9w
NvpXaTSwF+SjXGfROshUYOChsc75axNHXDvhzWVIC+MooY5IzJv3rZ6lBjN73kO1
WGq17xwtoVvSaMOW2CFspbhGNpM18UK7CkCm5ugGUD2lUIMztO9u4NQPgHIHHetX
XTIxKd/SoQUTMzAFybRyUAtg4EKlhGLotMNNU7/xNlkCaTlgXRKTg2BPnrykhhHI
Sxn/NVhpWnYjF2eJpKAIsf6eU/ElhVkXiQ7C4mQFdMNTP8wijBlIib1qI7M3h0lq
ji2UDBxPOhNSwkMjO1O1wxgRs6Lvj0+YDPyjoWPifLddUImZ1vmw+w==
=TvQx
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-27 (Wed, 28 May 1997 04:57:59 +0800) - [SSN and passport](/archive/1997/05/ce77f851f6ac24e42e42622622299aaabb4ef8301b33a095dfa4107e7664d6cf) - _nobody@hidden.net (Anonymous)_
+ 1997-05-27 (Wed, 28 May 1997 06:09:34 +0800) - Re: SSN and passport - _"Mark M." \<markm@voicenet.com\>_

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# 1997-05-28 - [NTSEC] Plaintext passwords exist in registry (fwd)
## Header Data
From: Ray Arachelian \<sunder@brainlink.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks \<cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 112abfdff8c2a5c14e4340e072b47200376bd9f40ac2e6bc77301965137e52f4<br>
Message ID: \<Pine.SUN.3.96.970528164543.15372E-100000@beast.brainlink.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-28 20:58:32 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 04:58:32 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Ray Arachelian <sunder@brainlink.com>
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 04:58:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks <cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: [NTSEC] Plaintext passwords exist in registry (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.970528164543.15372E-100000@beast.brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
=====================================Kaos=Keraunos=Kybernetos==============
.+.^.+.| Ray Arachelian | "Boy meets beer. Boy drinks Beer, |./|\.
..\|/..|sunder@sundernet.com| Boy gets another beer!" |/\|/\
<--*-->| ------------------ | |\/|\/
../|\..| "A toast to Odin, | For with those which eternal lie, with |.\|/.
.+.v.+.|God of screwdrivers"| strange aeons, even death may die. |.....
======================== http://www.sundernet.com =========================
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 09:17:53 -0700
From: Bill Stout <stoutb@pios.com>
To: PHILIPB@Omnicell.com, chris@auditek.com, ntsecurity@iss.net
Subject: [NTSEC] Plaintext passwords exist in registry
Most facinating what you find if you look.
The registry does store some passwords in plain text. The importance of the
passwords you do find depends on your installation. I found 'password' and
'username' entries at the below locations, but not much software was
installed on these NT boxes. Searching the NT registry for my password
string did not did not display anything, searching the W95 registry for my
specific password string found it in many places:
password locations:
hkey_local_machine\system\controlset001\services\gophersvc\parameters
...\controlset002\"
...\curentcontrolset\"
...\msftpsvc\parameters
...\w3svc\parameters\
username locations:
\hkey+local_machine\software\microsoft\windowsnt\currentversion\winlogon\
...\system\controlset001\services\bh\parameters
...\controlset002\"
...\curentcontrolset\"
...\services\gophersvc\parameters\anonymouseusername
...\logsqlusername
...\msftpsvc\parameters\anonymoususername
...\logsqlusername
...\w3svc\parameters\anonymoususername
...\logsqlusername
_____________________________________________________________________________
Bill Stout (Systems Engineer/Consultant) stoutb@pios.com
Pioneer Standard (Computer Systems & Components) http://www.pios.com/
San Jose, CA (Location of 1 of 52 U.S. offices) (408) 954-9100
*My opinions do not reflect that of the company, and visa-versa, thankfully.*
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-28 (Thu, 29 May 1997 04:58:32 +0800) - [NTSEC] Plaintext passwords exist in registry (fwd) - _Ray Arachelian \<sunder@brainlink.com\>_
+ 1997-05-28 (Thu, 29 May 1997 05:50:29 +0800) - [Re: [NTSEC] Plaintext passwords exist in registry (fwd)](/archive/1997/05/4fcdbd3228833906aec1cf7b99d01d4aad409621f7aa9e2a80b638492f9e680c) - _Tim May \<tcmay@got.net\>_

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# 1997-05-07 - Re: [NTSEC] 64-bit En/Decryption speed (fwd)
## Header Data
From: Ray Arachelian \<sunder@brainlink.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 112eda7a9dfa7f104a20d7f764c335b58b6946249595c9d96c6879506cf1829c<br>
Message ID: \<Pine.SUN.3.91.970507182059.999L-100000@beast.brainlink.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-07 22:53:25 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 06:53:25 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Ray Arachelian <sunder@brainlink.com>
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 06:53:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: [NTSEC] 64-bit En/Decryption speed (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.970507182059.999L-100000@beast.brainlink.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 14:17:55 -0400
From: Craig Nulan <Craig.Nulan@ccmail.irs.gov>
To: Bill Stout <stoutb@pios.com>, ntsecurity@iss.net
Subject: Re: [NTSEC] 64-bit En/Decryption speed
577 Mghz
No hardware abstraction layer
The native platform on which NT was developed
No need to validate beyond this. 10 times or faster.
The DEC marketing rhetoric re: Alphas, is fairly reliable,
unlike Microsoft's representations re: NT security.
Has anyone else on this list examined the apparent demise of
TCSEC product evaluations? Anyone else questioned why MS
failed to keep NT in the RAMP process subsequent to getting
version 3.5 C2 certified in a workstation configuration?
Does it strike anyone else as odd that the U.K.'s ITSEC
product evaluations are vendor sponsored, vendor scheduled,
and conducted in private test environments?
Does anyone believe that NT can ever be restructured
into a general purpose operating system? A secure, general
purpose O/S?
Two URL's you'll want to remember.
csrc.nist.gov - here you'll want to look at the the `94 and
`95 annual reports (and meeting minutes) of the Computer
Security and Privacy Advisory Board
www.ecma.ch - where you can read first hand how security
evaluation criteria are evolving
Could it be that it's time to consider NT security from the
perspective of the forest rather than from the perspective
of endless little leaves on endless expanses of trees?
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-07 (Thu, 8 May 1997 06:53:25 +0800) - Re: [NTSEC] 64-bit En/Decryption speed (fwd) - _Ray Arachelian \<sunder@brainlink.com\>_

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# 1997-05-06 - Pro-Crypto Arguments
## Header Data
From: Alan Olsen \<alan@ctrl-alt-del.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@algebra.com<br>
Message Hash: 1136c4ce48e5204cd22781ad01a168762f85c6077723587e5a0a7306edfae298<br>
Message ID: \<3.0.1.32.19970505215953.00a90ea0@mail.teleport.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-06 05:13:43 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 13:13:43 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Alan Olsen <alan@ctrl-alt-del.com>
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 13:13:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@algebra.com
Subject: Pro-Crypto Arguments
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970505215953.00a90ea0@mail.teleport.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
The current line of argument in supporting crypto seems to fall into the
"software as speech" (ala First Amendment) or Crypto as munition (and
invoking the Second Amendment).
I think of Crypto as "Freedom of Language".
Imagine the uproar that would be caused if Jesse Helms (or one of his ilk)
tried to pass a law that all conversations over the net or phone lines had to
be in English. (Or at least in a language understood by the cops.) The
amount of uproar would be incredible. The courts have already ruled against
this form of "language escrow". Such rulings should apply to encrypted
communications as well.
Software is just the mechanism for the language of cryptography, it is not
the language itself. Just as in spoken languages, special knowledge is
needed to understand the "ideas" being communicated. The algorithm is (in
part) that language. (But in this case, you are able to speak to only those
you intend, not to the world at large.)
Of course, the question is whether this line of reasoning will work under the
current regime. Maybe, maybe not. It seems a better argument than the ones
I have seen so far... Depends on how far the deck has been stacked against
us.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 4.5
iQEVAwUBM266uOQCP3v30CeZAQHU4wf9GePLzvloFC/zpM+uAmdzq+wCzASUt/vH
0GP4v9DwLTYtWDp4O/o/ietk1tej4G/d1h2owpdHsGT1qkUXWIG8XUjWsTPblPsa
0uS097K+fB7fP7+LUyrGWkaCwNMfqQ3gErhVfoRsQ6lJRhWE+6JiIcdgxC1OY7lg
kknM3//51Avbk+7CcVH+flyvL7uKWFHJdKpthiSSfKSg9nKJrLUQJxOQaK7xkpXH
4oFEKF1EApa2gFIPyTEM7Nd1Dp2PzcdNZrVHn2BmMP7eXeN4Jfkwoc31r95DPwpI
L2uWEeRpNEs61qNtM8/gkKMXk5fP/vLl8ujDHaYXDOP6dA3CnSbGOA==
=aN2p
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
---
| "Mi Tio es infermo, pero la carretera es verde!" |
|"The moral PGP Diffie taught Zimmermann unites all| Disclaimer: |
| mankind free in one-key-steganography-privacy!" | Ignore the man |
|`finger -l alano@teleport.com` for PGP 2.6.2 key | behind the keyboard.|
| http://www.ctrl-alt-del.com/~alan/ |alan@ctrl-alt-del.com|
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-06 (Tue, 6 May 1997 13:13:43 +0800) - Pro-Crypto Arguments - _Alan Olsen \<alan@ctrl-alt-del.com\>_

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# 1997-05-11 - List of Explosives
## Header Data
From: John Young \<jya@pipeline.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 11e203053585fa984988525f282e707966837495abe7907f0ead4e421d65dfe7<br>
Message ID: \<1.5.4.32.19970511032328.0088aeb0@pop.pipeline.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-11 03:39:23 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 11:39:23 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: John Young <jya@pipeline.com>
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 11:39:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: List of Explosives
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970511032328.0088aeb0@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
The correct URL for the latest ATF list of explosives:
http://jya.com/atf042597.xt
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-11 (Sun, 11 May 1997 11:39:23 +0800) - List of Explosives - _John Young \<jya@pipeline.com\>_
+ 1997-05-12 (Tue, 13 May 1997 01:23:44 +0800) - [RSA, PGP IN LEGAL FLAP OVER ENCRYPTION TECHNOLOGY](/archive/1997/05/dc87f5739f0250127301f092a61ea808aeb4c73c8e92c5c6e00555f33d807266) - _"Lynne L. Harrison" \<lharrison@mhv.net\>_

64
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# 1997-05-16 - Re: Anonymous Remailers
## Header Data
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 122a396391d4cc7073f6c27ddbf143232d73ea68fe94ab5ca4a4ccc120f5ef25<br>
Message ID: \<wDNs7D1w165w@bwalk.dm.com\><br>
Reply To: \<199705160648.CAA28895@dhp.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-16 13:26:23 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 21:26:23 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 21:26:23 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Anonymous Remailers
In-Reply-To: <199705160648.CAA28895@dhp.com>
Message-ID: <wDNs7D1w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
lucifer@dhp.com (lucifer Anonymous Remailer) writes:
> Kent Crispin wrote:
>
> > Lucky, since I am considered contemptible by several c'punks, I worry
> > about them more than I would about foreign intelligence agents.
>
> Not contemptible, just an easy target to be used for sighting
> one's scope in preparation for attending to more sophisticated
> targets.
> I find many of your canned-brain arguments hilarious but they
> do seem useful for fodder for aspiring anarchists to use as a
> foil for their development.
Why care?
---
Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-16 (Fri, 16 May 1997 15:06:38 +0800) - [Re: Anonymous Remailers](/archive/1997/05/205a6a7e328a0a203c106c47ff5352a322a617d7cd47b04bb89688ca928cf4c1) - _lucifer@dhp.com (lucifer Anonymous Remailer)_
+ 1997-05-16 (Fri, 16 May 1997 21:26:23 +0800) - Re: Anonymous Remailers - _dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)_

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# 1997-05-10 - Kerrey's Crypto Bill
## Header Data
From: John Young \<jya@pipeline.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 124f587beaf65778766a0796d9fdaac366407b2608d384ddb9d0b56cf1b0d9a9<br>
Message ID: \<1.5.4.32.19970510024526.008e4704@pop.pipeline.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-10 02:59:10 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 10:59:10 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: John Young <jya@pipeline.com>
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 10:59:10 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Kerrey's Crypto Bill
Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19970510024526.008e4704@pop.pipeline.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Thanks to Declan McCullagh we offer Senator Kerrey's
outline of his encryption bill, The Secure Public Network Act:
http://jya.com/tspna.htm (12K)
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-10 (Sat, 10 May 1997 10:59:10 +0800) - Kerrey's Crypto Bill - _John Young \<jya@pipeline.com\>_

64
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# 1997-05-28 - Re: Judge bans Internet gambling company from operating in Missouri
## Header Data
From: Bill Frantz \<frantz@netcom.com\><br>
To: Tim May \<cypherpunks@algebra.com<br>
Message Hash: 1298bd55ff50ff3ac0a726b65996cd8a565afe81478b6eef6df2acb6d5347253<br>
Message ID: \<v03007833afb21a1cae9f@[207.94.249.80]\><br>
Reply To: \<199705271720.MAA32492@mailhub.amaranth.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-28 18:07:31 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 02:07:31 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Bill Frantz <frantz@netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 02:07:31 +0800
To: Tim May <cypherpunks@algebra.com
Subject: Re: Judge bans Internet gambling company from operating in Missouri
In-Reply-To: <199705271720.MAA32492@mailhub.amaranth.com>
Message-ID: <v03007833afb21a1cae9f@[207.94.249.80]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 12:04 PM -0700 5/27/97, Tim May wrote:
>(And the lotteries have incredibly bad payoff odds...something like 30-40%,
>if I remember correctly. A slot machine with these odds would be shut down
>instantaneously as being a theft device! The state lotteries are often
>called "taxes on stupidity," and none of the well-off folks I know ever
>play this sucker's game. So, I should be rejoicing that Ma and Pa Kettle
>are squandering their paychecks on State-run gambling...but the principle
>is the thing I object to.)
I object to the state, providing addictive substances/experiences when
private enterprise could do the job. If they are against addiction, then
they should set a good example.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | The Internet was designed | Periwinkle -- Consulting
(408)356-8506 | to protect the free world | 16345 Englewood Ave.
frantz@netcom.com | from hostile governments. | Los Gatos, CA 95032, USA
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-27 (Tue, 27 May 1997 18:16:05 +0800) - [Judge bans Internet gambling company from operating in Missouri](/archive/1997/05/a213194613b168cd457e4c54a2b205706d456811c0ef824a2a7d69ba128c82c6) - _Bill Stewart \<stewarts@ix.netcom.com\>_
+ 1997-05-27 (Wed, 28 May 1997 01:35:11 +0800) - [Re: Judge bans Internet gambling company from operating in Missouri](/archive/1997/05/a60c456ac73899607ff67fb5970043e7b7ed1236a7013247fb03fb6343b6a583) - _"William H. Geiger III" \<whgiii@amaranth.com\>_
+ 1997-05-28 (Thu, 29 May 1997 02:07:31 +0800) - Re: Judge bans Internet gambling company from operating in Missouri - _Bill Frantz \<frantz@netcom.com\>_

88
_emails/1997/05/1322307519bf0540a6074672b6a2158a695ebd37eba9e74cf519fff2b8a66372.md Normal file
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@@ -0,0 +1,88 @@
---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-14 - Re: Would the anonymous person(s) please...
## Header Data
From: The Spectre \<spectre@nac.net\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 1322307519bf0540a6074672b6a2158a695ebd37eba9e74cf519fff2b8a66372<br>
Message ID: \<15075074017690@nrt.net\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-14 15:40:47 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 23:40:47 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: The Spectre <spectre@nac.net>
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 23:40:47 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Would the anonymous person(s) please...
Message-ID: <15075074017690@nrt.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Date: Wed May 14 11:12:10 1997
> Would all those anonymous remailing people with a flame tendency,
> please flame the person of your attacks, and don't send this bullshit
> to the list? Thanks...
>
What would be the point.. the only person you can be *sure* doesn't care
about these messages is the mark.
- -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.2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=tS4W
- -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
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iQEVAwUBM3nWTaAC4xvMjGa1AQHPLAf+PrpiMXm4xG3Ex2rTiowGqXL5ODizBaQB
IL+5Q6wTLjlpWJf5OFNX2YvLhsqWS868vLRq9xDsTTsYskhyj9bFfCR7izXq0TJu
ROFRKqo0F9iXYJt0pERBwHlfvdZ8wRfJMyql+FQSV5yiHyguWWuIvkalx695M992
bdGMq9WhKmlfFG2MvP8Wye478XlllYZzzQJ8lxnMlWGbekuQs+Ciduvqe9r0dKj2
UcrLdFOTwECBVv8QsTwY8Kc+RYNwuXSxTwRxrrs285b3TX8s+hhUPeoFyjbpPdG4
D9t1AgD1+CJUee4HIZQAy2vmUrUJZvNAxTlQoVoXEHjeGOd1AJPB/Q==
=zYWb
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-14 (Wed, 14 May 1997 23:40:47 +0800) - Re: Would the anonymous person(s) please... - _The Spectre \<spectre@nac.net\>_

155
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@@ -0,0 +1,155 @@
---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-18 - DCSB: Fred Hapgood on the Internet as an Auction-Pricing Incubator
## Header Data
From: Robert Hettinga \<rah@shipwright.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 132e4501cc70b3bafa6e06f4acd5d7ec662607becb6aad5e2dbf882cd0eefcb0<br>
Message ID: \<v03020903afa3b44feaa4@[139.167.130.248]\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-18 01:18:25 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 09:18:25 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Robert Hettinga <rah@shipwright.com>
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 09:18:25 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: DCSB: Fred Hapgood on the Internet as an Auction-Pricing Incubator
Message-ID: <v03020903afa3b44feaa4@[139.167.130.248]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
The Digital Commerce Society of Boston
Presents
Fred Hapgood
"The Internet as an Auction-Pricing Incubator"
Tuesday, June 3, 1997
12 - 2 PM
The Downtown Harvard Club of Boston
One Federal Street, Boston, MA
Price, Including Luncheon: $30.00
The low transaction costs and interactivity of the internet are proving a
highly favorable incubator for auction pricing. In April Yahoo reported
60+ sites supporting online auctions with more appearing every day. The
largest of these hosted more than 50,000 individual auctions (not
individual items) simultaneously and was growing at 25% a month. Online
auction sites appear to be the only indigenous internet service that is a)
generating profits of any scale and b) respectable. Fred will describe how
these auctions work, some of their varieties, what they are selling,
analyze the online auction site as a business model, review recent
developments, and weigh the odds that online auctions will be associated
with changes of interest in the structure of the economy and the culture.
Fred Hapgood, <http://www.pobox.com/~hapgood>, is a free-lance writer based
in Boston. While he often writes about aspects of electronic commerce, that
being where the market is, he promises creditworthy clients an attentive
and positive hearing to any proposition legal in at least one jurisdiction.
Last year he spoke before the DCSB on franchising and the internet.
This meeting of the Digital Commerce Society of Boston will be held on
Tuesday, June 3, 1997, from 12pm - 2pm at the Downtown Branch of the
Harvard Club of Boston, on One Federal Street. The price for lunch is
$30.00. This price includes lunch, room rental, various A/V hardware, and
the speaker's lunch. ;-). The Harvard Club *does* have dress code: jackets
and ties for men (and no sneakers or jeans), and "appropriate business
attire" (whatever that means), for women. Fair warning: since we purchase
these luncheons in advance, we will be unable to refund the price of your
lunch if the Club finds you in violation of the dress code.
We will attempt to record this meeting and put it on the web in RealAudio
format at some future date
We need to receive a company check, or money order, (or, if we *really*
know you, a personal check) payable to "The Harvard Club of Boston", by
Saturday, May 31, or you won't be on the list for lunch. Checks
payable to anyone else but The Harvard Club of Boston will have to be
sent back.
Checks should be sent to Robert Hettinga, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston,
Massachusetts, 02131. Again, they *must* be made payable to "The Harvard
Club of Boston", in the amount of $30.00.
If anyone has questions, or has a problem with these arrangements (We've
had to work with glacial A/P departments more than once, for instance),
please let us know via e-mail, and we'll see if we can work something
out.
Upcoming speakers for DCSB are:
July Win Treese TLS, Digital Commerce, and Export Issues
August Duncan Frissell MarketEarth
September Christof Paar Elliptic Curve Cryptography
October Peter Cassidy Military Fiat and Digital Commerce
November Carl Ellison Identity and Certification for Electronic
Commerce
We are actively searching for future speakers. If you are in Boston on
the first Tuesday of the month, and you would like to make a
presentation to the Society, please send e-mail to the DCSB Program
Commmittee, care of Robert Hettinga, <mailto: rah@shipwright.com> .
For more information about the Digital Commerce Society of Boston, send
"info dcsb" in the body of a message to <mailto: majordomo@ai.mit.edu> .
If you want to subscribe to the DCSB e-mail list, send "subscribe dcsb" in
the body of a message to <mailto: majordomo@ai.mit.edu> .
We look forward to seeing you there!
Cheers,
Robert Hettinga
Moderator,
The Digital Commerce Society of Boston
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 5.0 beta
Charset: noconv
iQEVAwUBM34DRMUCGwxmWcHhAQEgRwf+NMnjays51ipVI2DUkN7641PAGn21PWLI
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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-18 (Sun, 18 May 1997 09:18:25 +0800) - DCSB: Fred Hapgood on the Internet as an Auction-Pricing Incubator - _Robert Hettinga \<rah@shipwright.com\>_
+ 1997-05-19 (Tue, 20 May 1997 06:44:36 +0800) - [Incorporating in Nevada](/archive/1997/05/4db4eb07e899b86c686f54aa1dc6e8fe6fd3115615fce8d1a3a2610d8e11e74c) - _Steve Schear \<azur@netcom.com\>_

118
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@@ -0,0 +1,118 @@
---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-02 - High Ranking Reprsentative pulls support of SAFE...
## Header Data
From: Jonah Seiger \<jseiger@cdt.org\><br>
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net<br>
Message Hash: 141af485f9d0822a83e4a6bb31cbeafc43b3a5eeca9f0729cd6b7633c00866b1<br>
Message ID: \<v03020911af8fcf53cb16@[207.226.3.4]\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-02 17:31:35 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 01:31:35 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Jonah Seiger <jseiger@cdt.org>
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 01:31:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: High Ranking Reprsentative pulls support of SAFE...
Message-ID: <v03020911af8fcf53cb16@[207.226.3.4]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Looks like the FBI and thier allies have been playing hardball, and have
managed to convince a high-ranking Republican member of Congress to buy
into their ani-cryto reform arguments.
Solomon is the Chairman of the House Rules Committee.
This fight just got a lot tougher.
Jonah
----
May 1, 1997
OPPOSE HR. 695 "SAFE ACT"
Dear Colleague:
Earlier this week, after meeting with officials from Defense and FBI, I
removed myself as a cosponsor of HR 695. Allow me to explain some of their
concerns about this bill.
The Department of Defense believes that HR 695 would increase the export
threshold for encryption software to a level which would effectively remove
existing controls. This would make unbreakable encryption technology
widely available and "have a negative impact on national security,
effective law enforcement and public safety". The FBI opposes the bill
because, "It would be irresponsible for the U.S. to adopt a policy that
consciously unleashes widespread, unbreakable, non-key recovery encryption
products that undermine law enforcement in the United States and worldwide."
I also met with Ambassador Aaron (OECD), who pointed out that many of the
major industrial countries have already approved encryption safeguards and
the rest are waiting for the United States to act. He believes HR 695
would send the worst possible signal to our allies.
Lastly, Assistant Attorney General Andrew Fois stated in a letter to
Chairman Coble, "... the bill would severely compromise law enforcement's
ability to protect the American people from the threats posed by
terrorists, organized crime, child pornographers, drug cartels, financial
predators, hostile foreign intelligence agents, and other criminals... It
is difficult enough to fight crime without making criminals' tasks any
easier."
In addition to the FBI and DOD the legislation is opposed by the Justice
Department, Central Intelligence,. the NSA, the National District
Attorney's Association, the International Association of Chiefs of Police
and the National Sherrif's Association. Again, I would ask you to oppose
HR 695.
Sincerely,
[signed]
GERALD B. SOLOMON
Member of Congress.
* Value Your Privacy? The Governmet Doesn't. Say 'No' to Key Escrow! *
Adopt Your Legislator - http://www.crytpo.com/adopt
--
Jonah Seiger, Communications Director (v) +1.202.637.9800
Center for Democracy and Technology pager +1.202.859.2151
<jseiger@cdt.org>
PGP Key via finger
http://www.cdt.org
http://www.cdt.org/homes/jseiger
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-02 (Sat, 3 May 1997 01:31:35 +0800) - High Ranking Reprsentative pulls support of SAFE... - _Jonah Seiger \<jseiger@cdt.org\>_
+ 1997-05-02 (Sat, 3 May 1997 03:44:24 +0800) - [Re: High Ranking Reprsentative pulls support of SAFE...](/archive/1997/05/4fb70bf1b0bcd10779d5c7d8db466342afd0d3819c44a1ad2c20c24cc8056925) - _Tim May \<tcmay@got.net\>_

212
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@@ -0,0 +1,212 @@
---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-03 - "GOOD NEWS" "The Good News Electronic Journal"
## Header Data
From: Biz-E-Wiz@usa.net<br>
To: _N/A_<br>
Message Hash: 14e6794b96ca3ec26a0d089f6226d8ee35318cfa4d5ed95b53ad511164873aa4<br>
Message ID: \<m0wNYGL-00009SC@crash.cts.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-03 06:46:48 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 23:46:48 -0700 (PDT)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Biz-E-Wiz@usa.net
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 23:46:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: "GOOD NEWS" "The Good News Electronic Journal"
Message-ID: <m0wNYGL-00009SC@crash.cts.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
*****************************************************************
Thank you for Subscribing to "The Good News Electronic Journal".
Your subscription is appreciated. To unscribe: HIT reply, type
REMOVE in the subject area and HIT send.
Thank You, The Management
*****************************************************************
*** CHECKER Software -- Accept checks by Fax, Phone, or E-mail.
Reg. Retail Price $199 - <<<- GET IT NOW FOR $49.95 ->>> Send
this ad and payment to: Linkco - POB 66781 - Phoenix, AZ 85082
*****************************************************************
******************************
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------------------------------------------------------
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--------------------------
Our PACKAGE, (Beat The IRS & PAY-NO-MORE) will teach you
EXACTLY how to EASILY:
STOP FEDERAL Income Tax Withholding,
STOP April filing of 1040 Form,
&
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-------------------------------------------------------
The IRS Federal Income System is based on VOLUNTARY
COMPLIANCE.... We will teach you how to legally VOLUNTEER
OUT OF THE SYSTEM!
--------------------------------------------------------
- Your Success is ABSOLUTELY unconditionally GUARANTEED if
your were BORN in and LIVE in one of the 50 Republic States.
Our methods work every time for everybody. They are 100% legal,
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method has worked for every person who has ever bought this
package without exception. NOBODY HAS EVER FAILED OR ASKED FOR
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- Our PACKAGE includes a LIFETIME, FREE, SIMPLE, Sizzling,
RED Hot 50% PAY OUT Dealership, PLUS ALL the marketing material
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EXERCISING AND ENJOYING MORE OF YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.
SET YOURSELF FREE!
-------------------------------------------------------------
Your package includes unlimited FREE phone consultations, a copy
of the U.S. Constitution, The Bill of Rights, forms, affidavits,
and much, much more!
TO ORDER BY MAIL: Send this entire ad and a $35 Money Order to:
LINKCO --Dept. #1, POB 66781 -- Phoenix, AZ 85082
To order by phone and Fax Check call our office at (602)267-9688
between the hours of 4 and 11pm Mountain Standard Time. You may
also call just to ask questions. Thanks for reading this message!
Dealer #00001
- (Unconditional Money Back Guarantee) - - Copyright 1996 Linkco -
*****************************************************************
From: FREEDOM STAR BANK -- P.O. Box 66781 -- Phoenix, AZ 85082
To Wise Investors,
The Freedom Star National Bank of Arizona offers:
"The More You Save The More You Earn".
We offer only CD's, i.e., Certificates of Deposit.
$100-$999 deposit pays 18%.
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All % rates are per year and are not compounded.
There is a 50% penalty for early withdrawal.
All deposits have a 1 year maturity.
All funds must remain on deposit for a least 6 months.
Call Mr. Jon L. Boulet at 1-602-267-9688
for more information or to make a deposit. Thanks!
******************************************************************
100,000 E-MAIL ADDRESSES *** ON 3-1/2" DISK *** $19.95
LINKCO MARKETING - POB 66781 - PHOENIX, AZ 85085
***(602)267-9688***
******************************************************************
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LINKCO MARKETING - POB 66781 - PHOENIX, AZ 85085
***(602)267-9688***
******************************************************************
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***SEND YOUR 50 WORDS ON 3-1/2 DISK + $129.95***
LINKCO MARKETING - POB 66781 - PHOENIX, AZ 85085
***(602)267-9688***
******************************************************************
***GREAT NEWS!***
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than you've ever made in your life! Great News International
has created a NEW and POWERFUL marketing concept and its own
DOWNLINE GENERATOR to market the finest product package ever
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one time out of pocket! SATISFACTION MONEY BACK GUARANTEE! FREE
report, Valuable to all Networkers!
***Find Out How--Call 716-453-8952***
***Fax-On-Demand (703)904-7770 Doc. #404***
***InterNET: http://www.gnint.com/ir/jb4428.htm***
***Jon L. Boulet (602)267-9688 *** Sponsor ID #jb4828***
******************************************************************
Check out -LINKCO- (602)267-9688 1-11-pm (MST)
We offer the following:
1. Domain registration services.
2. Domain name sales, trades, and consignments.
3. Copywriting.
4. Typeseting and graphic design.
5. TAX advice and counseling.
6. E-mail address lists.
7. Fax number lists
8. Web page design and hosting.
9. Bulk e-mail software and e-mail address extractors.
10. Pop3 E-mail accounts that are bulk mail friendly.
11. FREE investment advice.
12. FREE MLM counseling.
13. Discount Bulk e-mailing service.
14. 9 cent/min. long distance service. Changing LD provider
not required. FREEBIE, just call me.
15. Discount advertising - opportunity publications.
*************************************************************
Dear Entrepreneur,
How to get MORE ORDERS for ANYTHING YOU SELL!
Hi, saw your posting online and was wondering if you market
products/services using your computer and would like to learn
how to do so QUITE a bit better than what you are already
doing?
If so, just say the words (words=MORE ORDERS) and I'll email
a free, helpful file that could mean the online marketing
difference between scintillating success and frustrating
failure. Just write me at: Linkco1@Juno.com and a complete
information package will be e-mailed to you ASAP.
*************************************************************
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letter and order form to 100,000 anxious affluent computer
owners that are interested in your opportunity for ONLY:
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out. If this doesn't make you BIG MONEY, NOTHING WILL!!
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format along with this ad and your $129 check payable to:
(LINKCO). Mail to: LINKCO - POB 66791 - Phoenix, AZ 85082
QUESTIONS CALL: (602)267-9688 3-11PM (MST).
**************************************************************
**************************************************************
10,000 BISINESS ENTREPRENEURS E-MAIL ADDRESSES
*** ON 3-1/2" DISK *** $49.95 ***
LINKCO MARKETING - POB 66781 - PHOENIX, AZ 85085
***(602)267-9688***
**************************************************************
*** 2,000 MLM'ers E-MAIL ADDRESSES ***
*** ON 3-1/2" DISK *** $29.95 ***
LINKCO MARKETING - POB 66781 - PHOENIX, AZ 85085
***(602)267-9688***
**************************************************************
***
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-03 (Fri, 2 May 1997 23:46:48 -0700 (PDT)) - "GOOD NEWS" "The Good News Electronic Journal" - _Biz-E-Wiz@usa.net_

119
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@@ -0,0 +1,119 @@
---
layout: default
---
# 1997-05-02 - "restrict technical assistance by U.S. persons with respect toencryption"
## Header Data
From: Tim May \<tcmay@got.net\><br>
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net<br>
Message Hash: 150f090eae5017ca4856682d31f45395cc14685111103253ee1de0a1dfa66f37<br>
Message ID: \<v03007809af8f34477b82@[207.167.93.63]\><br>
Reply To: \<tcmay@got.net\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-02 05:48:55 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 13:48:55 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Tim May <tcmay@got.net>
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 13:48:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: "restrict technical assistance by U.S. persons with respect toencryption"
In-Reply-To: <tcmay@got.net>
Message-ID: <v03007809af8f34477b82@[207.167.93.63]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 3:09 PM -0800 5/1/97, Anil Das wrote:
>On May 1, 11:40am, Tim May wrote:
>>
>> I'm no expert in these areas, but doesn't this consitute "providing hooks"
>> for strong crypto? The EARs say that a "hook" for inserting crypto modules
>> once a product is exported are essentially as bad as providing the crypto
>> before the product is exported.
>
> If the EAR says that, I would like to have a reference to
>the section, please, so I can look it up at jya.com. I am not
>saying it is not there, just that I haven't seen it, and I would
>like to see what the exact language is.
I hate it when people ask me to go dig up stuff...as I often end up wasting
my time doing it, instead of telling them to use their own search tools.
(It might be different if details like this were at my fingertips, sort of
like someone asking, "Is it true that Darwin wrote a book? Anyone know the
name of it?" As the export laws are long and complicated, finding things is
not easy.)
But it may have been worth it. While stupidly searching the EARs with my
tools, I found this little gem:
PART 730--[AMENDED]
8. Section 730.5 is amended by adding a new sentence to the end of
paragraph (d) to read as follows:
Sec. 730.5 Coverage of more than exports.
* * * * *
(d) * * * The EAR also restrict technical assistance by U.S.
persons with respect to encryption commodities or software.
[end quote]
This from http://jya.com/bxa123096.txt
I'm not sure what it means for Sameer and C2net, but were I him I'd have
some experts in this area look into whether _anything_ being done at C2net
could be construed as providing technical assistance.
And I seem to recall some saying these kinds of EAR restrictions were
linked to nuclear weaons...in fact, just today Lucky wrote: "I you read
744.6 EAR you will find the the provisions cited below only apply to nukes
and missiles, not crypto." I'm not sure what 744.6 is all about, but the
section quoted above pretty clearly says that providing technical
assistance with respect to crypto is covered.
Meanwhile, I didn't find the term "hook" mentioned in this particular URL.
But there have been many discussions of this, vis-a-vis the situation of
removing crypto from a product to get export approval and having a method
of adding crypto abroad. "Insert crypto hooks here" is treated as if the
program had crypto all along.
Anil, you'll have to do the research on where in the vast amount of stuff
on the EARs, the Munitions List, the CCL, etc. this is spelled out. I'm
done for the evening.
--Tim May, who makes a May Day promise to himself not be gulled into doing
clerking for others
There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-02 (Fri, 2 May 1997 13:48:55 +0800) - "restrict technical assistance by U.S. persons with respect toencryption" - _Tim May \<tcmay@got.net\>_

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layout: default
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# 1997-05-10 - [STEGO] Certified primes
## Header Data
From: nobody@huge.cajones.com (Huge Cajones Remailer)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 1532abb2abdd45a715cb6f82c1e723ec6be866b627a67c54f573f135aad43a17<br>
Message ID: \<199705101044.DAA12163@fat.doobie.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-10 11:01:29 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 19:01:29 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: nobody@huge.cajones.com (Huge Cajones Remailer)
Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 19:01:29 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: [STEGO] Certified primes
Message-ID: <199705101044.DAA12163@fat.doobie.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Timothy Maya is just a poor excuse for an
unschooled, retarded thug.
____
\ _/__ Timothy Maya
\\ /
\/
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-10 (Sat, 10 May 1997 19:01:29 +0800) - [STEGO] Certified primes - _nobody@huge.cajones.com (Huge Cajones Remailer)_
+ 1997-05-11 (Sun, 11 May 1997 18:49:36 +0800) - [Re: [STEGO] Certified primes](/archive/1997/05/53836df6f9cb7000f4ecb0cb946cf4ce39375009b5dee448a31fbf66c934def9) - _Graham-John Bullers \<real@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca\>_

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# 1997-05-13 - Re: `careerpunks'
## Header Data
From: Adam Shostack \<adam@homeport.org\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com (Cypherpunks Mailing List)<br>
Message Hash: 15431ea1542e8c5747d7257fd2b6a699224720c202c41f06f8fea06da4bd7008<br>
Message ID: \<199705131158.HAA20185@homeport.org\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-13 12:22:39 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 20:22:39 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Adam Shostack <adam@homeport.org>
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 20:22:39 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com (Cypherpunks Mailing List)
Subject: Re: `careerpunks'
Message-ID: <199705131158.HAA20185@homeport.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Adam Back wrote:
> Seems to me many of the `cypherpunks' have become `careerpunks' and
> are now more interested in trading crypto tips, trade gossip, than in
> cypherpunks projects.
>
> They went through the phase of buying kewl domain names (take a look
> down the subscriber lists), tinkering with remailers, and have now
> graduated to making money from crypto consulting, and lost interest in
> the issues where they don't add to the bottom line.
I disagree with your analysis. I'm working for a number of
large companies as a consultant. At each of them, I think I've done
things that substantially imrpove customer privacy. At one, I may
have sold them on role certificates "This certifies that the bearer
can access account 345567734545435." As opposed to "This is John
Smith." I think thats a huge win for privacy advocates, and hey, it
saves them work and money to do it this way. I could not have
convinced these people by posting to cypherpunks.
Selling your services does not involve selling out.
Adam
--
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
-Hume
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-13 (Tue, 13 May 1997 20:22:39 +0800) - Re: `careerpunks' - _Adam Shostack \<adam@homeport.org\>_
+ 1997-05-15 (Fri, 16 May 1997 00:50:54 +0800) - [Re: `careerpunks'](/archive/1997/05/5d85dee10c550be460f80599bcf3b683d670936b07f9d14b537143808d2480d0) - _Eric Murray \<ericm@lne.com\>_

48
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layout: default
---
# 1997-05-25 - No Subject
## Header Data
From: Mix \<mixmaster@remail.obscura.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 155e9df58e2f16e083063ab8ae908773129da88bfe80b4233a9f99a75900d0c2<br>
Message ID: \<199705251828.LAA28714@sirius.infonex.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-25 19:08:09 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 03:08:09 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Mix <mixmaster@remail.obscura.com>
Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 03:08:09 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199705251828.LAA28714@sirius.infonex.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Timothy May is so full of shit that some of it bursts out on this mailing list.
\|||/
(o o)
-ooO-(_)-Ooo- Timothy May
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-25 (Mon, 26 May 1997 03:08:09 +0800) - No Subject - _Mix \<mixmaster@remail.obscura.com\>_
+ 1997-05-25 (Mon, 26 May 1997 04:54:53 +0800) - [Re: your mail](/archive/1997/05/b6019994d887a4bb0f4c0c453280c667bd1950c19357a4850aa6252868143409) - _Graham-John Bullers \<real@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca\>_

59
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layout: default
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# 1997-05-11 - No Subject
## Header Data
From: lucifer@dhp.com (lucifer Anonymous Remailer)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 15673b7e807f1576aec48cf5117ff35bc64eeb0d128528fd98834a73ebcc93a1<br>
Message ID: \<199705111749.NAA24020@dhp.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-11 18:27:19 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 02:27:19 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: lucifer@dhp.com (lucifer Anonymous Remailer)
Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 02:27:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199705111749.NAA24020@dhp.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
<TITLE>ANFOS</TITLE>
<FONT SIZE=5>ANFOS</FONT>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
ANFO is an acronym for Ammonium Nitrate - Fuel Oil Solution. An ANFO
solves the only other major problem with ammonium nitrate: its tendency
to pick up water vapor from the air. This results in the explosive
failing to detonate when such an attempt is made. This is rectified by
mixing 94% (by weight) ammonium nitrate with 6% fuel oil, or kerosene.
The kerosene keeps the ammonium nitrate from absorbing moisture from the
air. An ANFO also requires a large shockwave to set it off.
<BR>
<HR>
<BR>
<I>From the Terror Handbook</I>
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-11 (Mon, 12 May 1997 02:27:19 +0800) - No Subject - _lucifer@dhp.com (lucifer Anonymous Remailer)_

54
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# 1997-05-29 - Re: SSZ status
## Header Data
From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)<br>
To: ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate)<br>
Message Hash: 15953469ada10ea5d1051d91026d948c4c5b84cbd626a25a73278f6724a7f38d<br>
Message ID: \<199705290239.VAA03053@manifold.algebra.com\><br>
Reply To: \<199705290144.UAA00965@einstein.ssz.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-05-29 02:55:03 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 10:55:03 +0800<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 10:55:03 +0800
To: ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com (Jim Choate)
Subject: Re: SSZ status
In-Reply-To: <199705290144.UAA00965@einstein.ssz.com>
Message-ID: <199705290239.VAA03053@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text
Jim Choate wrote:
>
> SSZ seems to be stable since the power was restored where my ISP was
> located. There should be no further service interruptions expected.
>
It is hard to imagine a natural disaster that would ever bring the
cypherpunks network down!
- Igor.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [May 1997](/archive/1997/05)
+ 1997-05-29 (Thu, 29 May 1997 10:26:26 +0800) - [SSZ status](/archive/1997/05/835efe922d8abc4ffc739a67fec418a9eee573c72849a09dffd10065b8118934) - _Jim Choate \<ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com\>_
+ 1997-05-29 (Thu, 29 May 1997 10:55:03 +0800) - Re: SSZ status - _ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)_

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