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# 1997-01-20 - Re: infinity & set membership (fwd)
## Header Data
From: Jim Choate \<ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 00259faf3924c916cbaa2508577346d52bda284b8548417e4b6b3edd3583d96b<br>
Message ID: \<199701201540.JAA02315@einstein\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-20 15:33:51 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 07:33:51 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Jim Choate <ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 07:33:51 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: infinity & set membership (fwd)
Message-ID: <199701201540.JAA02315@einstein>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text
> What could be the problem here? One problem might be that an integer
> (not including infinity) divided by "infinity" should be 0.
This ratio has one of 3 outcomes in my system depending on the rate of
approach to infinity of the defining functions,
oo/oo = 0 if the denominator grows faster than the numerator
oo/oo = oo if the numerator grows faster than the denominator
oo/oo = 1 if the two functions grow at equal rates
Jim Choate
CyberTects
ravage@ssz.com
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-20 (Mon, 20 Jan 1997 07:33:51 -0800 (PST)) - Re: infinity & set membership (fwd) - _Jim Choate \<ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com\>_

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# 1997-01-22 - Re: Dr. Vulis' social engineering experiment
## Header Data
From: Sean Roach \<roach_s@alph.swosu.edu\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 003404894dfefa7dffcddac8701108b2041d962ed38d533f117ca4a391d05752<br>
Message ID: \<199701220020.QAA14642@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-22 00:20:11 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:20:11 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Sean Roach <roach_s@alph.swosu.edu>
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:20:11 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Dr. Vulis' social engineering experiment
Message-ID: <199701220020.QAA14642@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 12:35 AM 1/21/97 -0500, Jane Jefferson wrote:
>Governments, however, are made up of the very same people who claim
>to require these rights to privacy. Those people create, codify and
>enforce the laws. The problem is that the people who find themselves in
>this position of power are not always the most moral or concerned with
>the best interest of the majority.
>
>And fiendishly, it is the very chaos and anarchy and random chance
>espoused by proponents of the cypherpunk philosophy that allows these
>people to gain this power, unchecked!
>
>Thus, the real problem ends up being not "how to control the government
>so that the government doesn't control us", but "how to deal with the
>government when it goes into control-freak mode". That it will go into
>such a mode is a given -- based on human nature and history. This is
>a fundamental cycle of evolution and human behavior. We have to face
>the fact that humans are predators, and as long as we are, the
>cycle of this behavior will continue.
Also, remember, that those people willing to put up with the responsibility
of leadership are more often more extreme control freaks than the rest of
the population. Persons asked on the street if they wanted to be president
of the United States have often said no way, yet every four years we have at
least two people willing to put up with the hassle in order to be the most
powerful man in the country.
What we need is a leader who is willing to put up with it for h[is/er]
people/cause, but has no desire to stay any longer than absolutely necessary.
Then we need another just like h[im/er] for the next term.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-22 (Tue, 21 Jan 1997 16:20:11 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Dr. Vulis' social engineering experiment - _Sean Roach \<roach_s@alph.swosu.edu\>_

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# 1997-01-20 - "Technical data" exemptions in new crypto regs
## Header Data
From: Declan McCullagh \<declan@pathfinder.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 00408196823835bc79293c52157e6f7cfbe9bba20a37e132d7d250b496cc395a<br>
Message ID: \<199701202146.NAA19272@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-20 21:46:05 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:46:05 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Declan McCullagh <declan@pathfinder.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:46:05 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: "Technical data" exemptions in new crypto regs
Message-ID: <199701202146.NAA19272@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
[Can anyone who knows more than I do answer this? --Declan]
---
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 14:45:44 -0500 (EST)
To: declan@well.com (Declan McCullagh)
From: Solveig Bernstein <sberns@cato.org>
What have the new crypto regs done to the "technical data" and the "public
domain" exemptions from ITAR?
The problem is this: as I understand it, the Commerce Dept. regs exempt
teaching and print presentations generally, but these exemptions do not
apply to "encryption software."
Does this mean that the exemptions do not apply to *teaching about*
encryption software or *publications about* encryption software? Or *only*
that the exemptions do not apply to diskette-contained source code or object
code.
In other words, the new regs might completely decontrol teaching and
publication of something like Professor Bernstein's Snuffle.
On the other hand, the new regs might, like ITAR, restrict teaching and
publication of Snuffle (as well as publication of source code in diskette
format).
The purpose of the question is to understand whether a First Amendment
challenge to the new regs is a First Amendment challenge to a restriction on
*teaching, publication, and program distribution* or just a challenge to a
restriction on *program distribution.*
Solveig Bernstein, Esq.
(202) 789-5274
(202) 842-3490 (fax)
Assistant Director of Telecommunications & Technology Studies
Cato Institute
1000 Mass. Ave. NW
Washington, DC 20001
-------------------------
The Netly News Network
http://netlynews.com/
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-20 (Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:46:05 -0800 (PST)) - "Technical data" exemptions in new crypto regs - _Declan McCullagh \<declan@pathfinder.com\>_

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# 1997-01-21 - Re: [NOISE] Re: Dr. Vulis' social engineering experiment
## Header Data
From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)<br>
To: roach_s@alph.swosu.edu (Sean Roach)<br>
Message Hash: 0040ae1d26e88911eea13b85041a1ee4eb491f13fc42e1d10a43bdd1babfa4e9<br>
Message ID: \<199701212252.QAA01519@manifold.algebra.com\><br>
Reply To: \<199701212240.OAA13169@toad.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-21 22:58:50 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:58:50 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:58:50 -0800 (PST)
To: roach_s@alph.swosu.edu (Sean Roach)
Subject: Re: [NOISE] Re: Dr. Vulis' social engineering experiment
In-Reply-To: <199701212240.OAA13169@toad.com>
Message-ID: <199701212252.QAA01519@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text
Sean Roach wrote:
> That machine will be the SIXTH model made by a little firm on the thirteenth
> floor of an office building.
> It will operate on several thousand 6X86 processors.
> It will operate either on MSDOS 6.0 or UNIX V6R4, depending on how soon it
> is completed.
>
> And it won't be our forearms, we can cover those with sleeves. It will be
> our brow. (please excuse the spelling).
>
yeah, 6000 processors, all managed by MS-DOS. And 30,000 couriers alone.
- Igor.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-21 (Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:40:31 -0800 (PST)) - [[NOISE] Re: Dr. Vulis' social engineering experiment](/archive/1997/01/dbed549446a4752972f6d984c5752dd180e5c7c7badf08d9dcaee91c23557fd8) - _Sean Roach \<roach_s@alph.swosu.edu\>_
+ 1997-01-21 (Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:58:50 -0800 (PST)) - Re: [NOISE] Re: Dr. Vulis' social engineering experiment - _ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)_

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# 1997-01-27 - casio dialer
## Header Data
From: iamme \<ja94a08@tdi.itm.edu.my\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 004ab17d57c45cef83974a030e021581d46ee72d1c210354a32c0811e5820426<br>
Message ID: \<199701271425.GAA23737@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-27 14:25:35 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 06:25:35 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: iamme <ja94a08@tdi.itm.edu.my>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 06:25:35 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: casio dialer
Message-ID: <199701271425.GAA23737@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
anyone heard of casio .. phone dialer watch ? it's stated that user can phone
for free using public phone .. anyone ?
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-27 (Mon, 27 Jan 1997 06:25:35 -0800 (PST)) - casio dialer - _iamme \<ja94a08@tdi.itm.edu.my\>_

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# 1997-01-27 - Re: DPT Win 3.xx, 95, NT ENCRYPTION program
## Header Data
From: bernard \<bernard@xs4all.nl\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 005c30b1cb73d13a60ae9609966d072dfbd8a9a3f7df4518e92072bf2b1b37ac<br>
Message ID: \<32EB2D79.7C5B@xs4all.nl\><br>
Reply To: \<199701261600.KAA04355@manifold.algebra.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-27 01:45:31 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 17:45:31 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: bernard <bernard@xs4all.nl>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 17:45:31 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: DPT Win 3.xx, 95, NT ENCRYPTION program
In-Reply-To: <199701261600.KAA04355@manifold.algebra.com>
Message-ID: <32EB2D79.7C5B@xs4all.nl>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
> Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> > Newsgroups: comp.security.misc
> > * DPT Win 3.xx, 95, NT ENCRYPTION program
> > * at; http://www.xs4all.nl/~bernard
> > Bernard, thanks for an interesting post. I am Cc-ing your message to
> > Cypherpunks mailing list which is ostensibly dedicated to discussions
> > of cryptography.
> >
> > As follows from info on your home page, you do use simple XOR to
> > encrypt your data. It was not clear to me though, how do you generate
> > the keys to encrypt the data. I am sure that many readers of cypherpunks
> > mailing list will be interested, so please send a copy of your reply
> > to cypherpunks@toad.com.
You can enter a short key or import one with command [Get Key]. This is, you point
any file, and the key will become the 30000 first characters of this file.
You can get this file any where on your machine, the network, the internet, foppy,,,,,
If you add (paste or type) or delete characters at the begining of the imported key,
the reste will shift right, and this imported key become a new key.
You can't remember a key of 30000 chr (so you have to store it) but you can remenber the
the change you made (10 to 100 or more chr) and of course, don't store it.
Thank you for your interest.
DPT dos / DPT16 / DPT32 http://www.xs4all.nl/~bernard
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-26 (Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:02:47 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: DPT Win 3.xx, 95, NT ENCRYPTION program](/archive/1997/01/7c3aa9d85ed760e1f32da4d53fe052083ff5a2ae25b231459a0e16b7974ade4d) - _"Igor Chudov @ home" \<ichudov@algebra.com\>_
+ 1997-01-27 (Sun, 26 Jan 1997 17:45:31 -0800 (PST)) - Re: DPT Win 3.xx, 95, NT ENCRYPTION program - _bernard \<bernard@xs4all.nl\>_

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# 1997-01-14 - Re: Newt's phone calls
## Header Data
From: Declan McCullagh \<declan@pathfinder.com\><br>
To: Sean Roach \<roach_s@alph.swosu.edu\><br>
Message Hash: 005d6df9dcf2d291a4995f7f05a57aa958a24ad64dfc3ff7e43476c2bbedea30<br>
Message ID: \<Pine.GSO.3.95.970114173320.24637A-100000@cp.pathfinder.com\><br>
Reply To: \<199701142209.RAA26359@pathfinder.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-14 22:36:05 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:36:05 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Declan McCullagh <declan@pathfinder.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:36:05 -0800 (PST)
To: Sean Roach <roach_s@alph.swosu.edu>
Subject: Re: Newt's phone calls
In-Reply-To: <199701142209.RAA26359@pathfinder.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.970114173320.24637A-100000@cp.pathfinder.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
It's a gradual change, certainly. The Washinton Post hasn't mentied crypto
in their exhaustive covering of the subject. But I maintain it's not that
far beneath the radar. Watch the Lehrer Newhour (or whatever the hell it's
called now) tonight, for instance.
-Declan
On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Sean Roach wrote:
> At 08:37 PM 1/13/97 -0500, Declan McCullagh wrote:
> >Don't be too sure that crypto is that far beneath the radar. I spent
> >Thursday through Saturday at an annual privacy conference for activists
> >from around the country, and they understood the principles. Their
> >voicemails were filling up with calls from reporters last Friday about the
> >Gingrich incident, and I know they were talking crypto.
> ...
> Believe me, at least around here it is.
> I am a college student studying computer science, and 80% of the people that
> I talk to on a regular basis not only know how to play around with windows,
> (and Netscape), but also at least a modicum of simple fixes to simple
> problems, (such as unformatting a DOS disk). This is what I consider to be
> bottom level for that 80%, however, very few of them know even as much about
> cryptography as I do. And I barely know how to use PGP.
> I have had Computer Science professors express ignorance as to what PGP is,
> much less all of these others that I have learned about by hanging around here.
> A few people know what crypto is, but most don't.
>
>
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-14 (Tue, 14 Jan 1997 14:36:05 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Newt's phone calls - _Declan McCullagh \<declan@pathfinder.com\>_

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# 1997-01-10 - DES 128
## Header Data
From: DataETRsch@aol.com<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 007fbd2ce7507d9d6637ede48005a0a7f6acc4957402eaa5460348e26f70bd17<br>
Message ID: \<970110173243_2022167725@emout04.mail.aol.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-10 22:43:41 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 14:43:41 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: DataETRsch@aol.com
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 14:43:41 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: DES 128
Message-ID: <970110173243_2022167725@emout04.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
DES 128 is a cloned version of the original DES.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-10 (Fri, 10 Jan 1997 14:43:41 -0800 (PST)) - DES 128 - _DataETRsch@aol.com_
+ 1997-01-11 (Fri, 10 Jan 1997 22:53:58 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: DES 128](/archive/1997/01/55f218246b5af82fa553e2af6ba8fd3684581df5832faf517f5e0a3f96c697d5) - _snow \<snow@smoke.suba.com\>_

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# 1997-01-29 - Re: Fighting the cybercensor
## Header Data
From: Sean Roach \<roach_s@alph.swosu.edu\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 008f9c1deee98cd0a34f7213e19fb4885767bf8142948d833df074530a4926f9<br>
Message ID: \<199701291935.LAA08623@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-29 19:35:38 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 11:35:38 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Sean Roach <roach_s@alph.swosu.edu>
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 11:35:38 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Fighting the cybercensor
Message-ID: <199701291935.LAA08623@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 09:40 PM 1/27/97 -0500, Phillip M. Hallam-Baker wrote:
>
>
>jim bell <jimbell@pacifier.com> wrote in article
<5ch9f2$cuu@life.ai.mit.edu>...
>
>> Look, I've proposed what I consider to be a remarkably consistent method to
>> prevent the kind of political tyranny that you criticize, and I don't see
>> any recognition of this fact.
>
>Thats because its a whacko solution that has no credibility
>or consistency.
>
>If anyone tried to set up such a market and a price went out
>on any of the heads of state fantasized about Mr Bell would be
>dead as a doornail in a week.
>
So you're saying that the system would work. Mr. bell would be targeted, a
price on his head, for starting that very system. Mr. Bell would be a
martyr, his system being proven by his own death. It would be some varient
of his idea that would be used to kill him, a bounty.
I think that the system would work, I also think that it would be easiest to
use by those already in possession of the money.
It would take care of part of our overpopulation problem though...
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-29 (Wed, 29 Jan 1997 11:35:38 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Fighting the cybercensor - _Sean Roach \<roach_s@alph.swosu.edu\>_

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# 1997-01-21 - Re: microcurrency: Netscape vs. Microsoft
## Header Data
From: Lucky Green \<shamrock@netcom.com\><br>
To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" \<vznuri@netcom.com\><br>
Message Hash: 00d1ac03b4509a30acdfbed3188f04a36f658ff93f4a1c54427162a6e84e9c6d<br>
Message ID: \<199701210540.VAA29342@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-21 05:40:50 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:40:50 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Lucky Green <shamrock@netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:40:50 -0800 (PST)
To: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" <vznuri@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: microcurrency: Netscape vs. Microsoft
Message-ID: <199701210540.VAA29342@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 11:46 AM 1/20/97 -0800, Vladimir Z. Nuri wrote:
>[microcurrency]
>>It will also not catch on until there are better standards involving
>>microcurrency transactions amongst the vendors. It would also help if
>>there was a single interface (or "helper app") for whatever vendor you
>>decided to go with.
I am not sure that is feasible. Single interface, perhaps. Sun's Java Wallet is step in this direction. Single helper app, not a chance. The systems are too different, and do not share a sufficient number of properties, to use the same helper app.
>as I see it, I think there are a few key standards that need
>to be devised:
>
>1. an html tag that indicates how much a link costs, probably in
>the <a href="" cost=xx> type syntax
This could be done, but is, IMHO, too inflexible.
>2. modification of http to support a payment mechanism, by sending
>a token.
Take a look at PEP and UPP. This may not be what you are looking for, but it is a start. Available at any IETF draft repository.
[...]
>>Currently every vendor of payment schemes has made it proprietary in some
>>way. (At least the ones I have seen.) This means that if the user visits
>>three different web pages, each using a payment scheme from a different
>>vendor, that user has to be signed up with all of those vendors. (Or at
>>least have their helper apps.)
The systems are *not* interchangeable due to fundamental differences in the design. This is not a software/UI issue.
I do not expect the signup requirements to last much longer. To give just one example, take a look at the current discussions on dev-lucre, a list for the Unofficial Cypherpunks Implementation of Ecash. [Sorry, I don't have the archive URL.]
http://www.isaac.cs.berkeley.edu/ntlucre/ has the latest version.
The list is currently discussing an ActiveX Ecash control. With -lucre, you no longer need to sign up with an issuer. Assuming an ActiveX control, the client software installs itself. As to the merchant software, Stronghold already ships with Ecash support built in. Netscape has announce that Navigator will ship with CyberCash. There is definitely movement at the browser/server end.
-- Lucky Green <mailto:shamrock@netcom.com> PGP encrypted mail preferred
Make your mark in the history of mathematics. Use the spare cycles of
your PC/PPC/UNIX box to help find a new prime.
http://www.mersenne.org/prime.htm
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-21 (Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:40:50 -0800 (PST)) - Re: microcurrency: Netscape vs. Microsoft - _Lucky Green \<shamrock@netcom.com\>_

62
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layout: default
---
# 1997-01-26 - Re: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks mailing list
## Header Data
From: Toto \<toto@sk.sympatico.ca\><br>
To: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" \<dlv@bwalk.dm.com\><br>
Message Hash: 00d5f871e289e6af6c4bd7754281dfb467912a78866fddd936e54bee1a1daf31<br>
Message ID: \<32EAFDA5.2936@sk.sympatico.ca\><br>
Reply To: \<199701251627.IAA28475@toad.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-26 06:26:16 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:26:16 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Toto <toto@sk.sympatico.ca>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:26:16 -0800 (PST)
To: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" <dlv@bwalk.dm.com>
Subject: Re: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks mailing list
In-Reply-To: <199701251627.IAA28475@toad.com>
Message-ID: <32EAFDA5.2936@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
> Toto <toto@sk.sympatico.ca> writes:
> > paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk wrote:
> > It became rather glaringly obvious after moderation was announced
> > that class structure would be the defining feature of moderation.
> > Those who felt themselves to be in the 'upper class' made no
> > bones about it.
>
> That's a very insightful obeservation.
Obese-rvation? I hope you are not assuming that I am obese, just
because I am responding to a post originating from
'fatmans.demon.co.uk.'
I would hate to become relegated to the upcoming cypherpunks-fatpeople
list because of assumptions of this nature.
Toto
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-26 (Sat, 25 Jan 1997 22:26:16 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks mailing list - _Toto \<toto@sk.sympatico.ca\>_

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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-30 - Re: libsln.htm -- Is Libel a Crime?
## Header Data
From: jim bell \<jimbell@pacifier.com\><br>
To: aga \<aga@dhp.com\><br>
Message Hash: 00d7eceddb90eb4418ba3b54d64dd272ee032e80aead549dd65b374dcd3567a8<br>
Message ID: \<199701300442.UAA01122@mail.pacifier.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-30 04:42:33 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 20:42:33 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: jim bell <jimbell@pacifier.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 20:42:33 -0800 (PST)
To: aga <aga@dhp.com>
Subject: Re: libsln.htm -- Is Libel a Crime?
Message-ID: <199701300442.UAA01122@mail.pacifier.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 11:20 AM 1/29/97 -0500, aga wrote:
>On Tue, 28 Jan 1997, jim bell wrote:
>> One obvious problem with the LACK of a criminal libel statute, from the
>> standpoint of the "government-controlling-class," or "the bigshots," is
that
>> it's impossible to sue (and collect from) a (comparatively) poor person for
>> defaming him...but it's still possible to put him in jail. Civil libel is,
>> therefore, essentially useless to a government agent as a means of keeping
>> the masses in line.
>>
>>
>> Myself, I believe that libel should be eliminated as a cause of action in
>> civil cases as well as it has, de facto, in the criminal area. If
anything,
>> the ability to sue for libel makes things worse: There is an illusion that
>> this is easy and straightforward, if not economical. It is neither. The
>> result is that people are actually MORE likely to believe a printed
>> falsehood because they incorrectly assume that if it wasn't true, it
>> couldn't be printed.
>Interesting analysis here, but remember; libel is just one kind of
>"defamation" and an action for defamation will always be actionable.
Sure about that?!?
>The constitution gives us the right to call the President a
>motherfucker any time we want to,
yes...
>and it also gives the motherfucker
>the right to sue.
While admittedly it has been a long time since I've read the entire US
Constitution, I am not under the impression that it does what you claim.
Could you be more specific about the particular section which does this?
> Sueing is better than fighting in the streets.
For the LAWYERS, who are paid regardless of the outcome, that certainly
appears to be the case.
Jim Bell
jimbell@pacifier.com
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-30 (Wed, 29 Jan 1997 20:42:33 -0800 (PST)) - Re: libsln.htm -- Is Libel a Crime? - _jim bell \<jimbell@pacifier.com\>_

59
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layout: default
---
# 1997-01-27 - cc.317.html
## Header Data
From: Jim Choate \<ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 010d76558fc62c7ce83a81c2ff1de2fb5e60c9e2fd2100781557636c38bb5c39<br>
Message ID: \<199701270603.AAA02306@einstein\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-27 05:38:42 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 21:38:42 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Jim Choate <ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 21:38:42 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: cc.317.html
Message-ID: <199701270603.AAA02306@einstein>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
VERDICTS IN CASES OF DEFAMATORY LIBEL.
317. Where, on the trial of an indictment for publishing a defamatory
libel, a plea of not guilty is pleaded, the jury that is sworn to try
the issue may give a general verdict of guilty or not guilty on the
whole matter put in issue on the indictment, and shall not be required
or directed by the judge to find the defendant guilty merely on proof
of publication by the defendant of the alleged defamatory libel, and
of the sense ascribed thereto in the indictment, but the judge may, in
his discretion, give a direction or opinion to the jury on the matter
in issue as in other criminal proceedings, and the jury may, on the
issue, find a special verdict. [R.S., c.C-34, s.281.]
_________________________________________________________________
Next, Section 318 ...
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-27 (Sun, 26 Jan 1997 21:38:42 -0800 (PST)) - cc.317.html - _Jim Choate \<ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com\>_

79
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-25 - Re: Homo/bi/sexuals Most Destructive (fwd)
## Header Data
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 011dd3bbde36ed7af58e7eca3d7f0b8286b0729bcba5484e7ba8de3b16404378<br>
Message ID: \<cBc41D30w165w@bwalk.dm.com\><br>
Reply To: \<199701250957.BAA23606@toad.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-25 14:40:17 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 06:40:17 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 06:40:17 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Homo/bi/sexuals Most Destructive (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199701250957.BAA23606@toad.com>
Message-ID: <cBc41D30w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Jim Choate <ravage@einstein.ssz.com> writes:
>
> Forwarded message:
>
> > From satan_is_a_hacker@juno.com Fri Jan 24 22:06:53 1997
> > Subject: Re: Homo/bi/sexuals Most Destructive (fwd)
> > Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:57:52 EST
> >
> > YOU ARE BOTH WRONG THE CORRECT TERM IS INDEX CASE
>
> > >The correct term is 'Patient 0'.
>
> You are welcome to contact the CDC in Georgia and correct their terminology.
> I am shure they would appreciate it.
>
> http://www.cdc.gov/
>
> Their webpage search capability is temporarily down so you might have to
> talk to a real person,
>
> Center for Disease Control and Prevention
> 1600 Clifton Rd., NE.
> Atlanta, GA 30333
> 404-639-3311
>
> Jim Choate
> CyberTects
> ravage@ssz.com
I ask the moderator to explain why all these "breeder-bashing" flames
are posted to the censored list.
---
Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-25 (Sat, 25 Jan 1997 01:57:06 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: Homo/bi/sexuals Most Destructive (fwd)](/archive/1997/01/ba24e204291e549a06d2c41205459ecd289c859acb0237739fa00f89b25c6cf6) - _Jim Choate \<ravage@einstein.ssz.com\>_
+ 1997-01-25 (Sat, 25 Jan 1997 06:40:17 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Homo/bi/sexuals Most Destructive (fwd) - _dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)_

58
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layout: default
---
# 1997-01-27 - Happy birthday to Oksas
## Header Data
From: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" \<dlv@bwalk.dm.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 011fa1d99ce4324c70cc839eac1f3d0d5fdaf19788c02b561d4dd70e228475cd<br>
Message ID: \<199701270410.UAA07321@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-27 04:10:41 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 20:10:41 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" <dlv@bwalk.dm.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 20:10:41 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Happy birthday to Oksas
Message-ID: <199701270410.UAA07321@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Nurdane Oksas <oksas@asimov.montclair.edu> writes:
> That's my birthday...
Happy birthday to you,
Happy birthday to you,
Happy birthday dear Oksas,
Happy birthday to you!
> have a great week ahead everyone!
Have a good year.
---
Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-27 (Sun, 26 Jan 1997 20:10:41 -0800 (PST)) - Happy birthday to Oksas - _"Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" \<dlv@bwalk.dm.com\>_

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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-04 - Re: Anonymous Post Control
## Header Data
From: paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk<br>
To: Peter Hendrickson \<ph@netcom.com\><br>
Message Hash: 013253f1035bff0fc6e24b39c5b6a4515a9c30eb35c80368b5dda1834de5b8e6<br>
Message ID: \<852383891.629350.0@fatmans.demon.co.uk\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-04 13:38:53 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 05:38:53 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 05:38:53 -0800 (PST)
To: Peter Hendrickson <ph@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Anonymous Post Control
Message-ID: <852383891.629350.0@fatmans.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
> It would be nice if toad.com would verify signatures and insert a
> header into the messages with the PGP User Id of every poster.
> Then it would be very easy for many people to filter the messages
> using widely available off-the-shelf mail software.
Well the obvious answer seems to me to stop majordomo at toad.com
accepting ANY messages from anonymous sources but let pseudonyms
post, pseudonymous posting allows the owner of the nym to accumulate
reputation capital without disclosing his or her true identity.
Bear in mind of course that this is a purely technical answer and I
happen not to believe that anonymous posting should be stopped.
Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security
Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk
Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org
Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/
Email for PGP public key, ID: 5BBFAEB1
"Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-04 (Sat, 4 Jan 1997 05:38:53 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Anonymous Post Control - _paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk_
+ 1997-01-04 (Sat, 4 Jan 1997 09:50:18 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: Anonymous Post Control](/archive/1997/01/4a773cd38c412f79dacfbadc431b4ac228e255b0a4e8fe95846ccd6ca7e112eb) - _dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)_

65
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-25 - Re: Airport security [no such thing]
## Header Data
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0151850cc1ef613f855352ceaf30f89d8abda13f8689d678c84ca9636c62bf30<br>
Message ID: \<3D021D18w165w@bwalk.dm.com\><br>
Reply To: \<199701241359.FAA24956@toad.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-25 00:43:18 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 16:43:18 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 16:43:18 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Airport security [no such thing]
In-Reply-To: <199701241359.FAA24956@toad.com>
Message-ID: <3D021D18w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Sandy Sandfort <sandfort@crl9.crl.com> writes:
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> SANDY SANDFORT
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>
> C'punks,
...
> By the way number two, this response will be posted to the flames
> list and NOT the moderated list. Even though I have not flamed
> anyone, two things keep it off the moderated list: (1) my policy
> about keeping thread on the same list where possible (see above),
> and (2) basic precepts of fairness.
Sandy lied - he posted this aritcle to BOTH cypherpunks-flames and
the censored list. Does anyone else enjoy the privilege of posting
their articles to BOTH lists?
---
Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-24 (Fri, 24 Jan 1997 05:59:59 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: Airport security [no such thing]](/archive/1997/01/8c1b36cc629049db399d98bd5c8a6e110ff31af21e2b17eded5853d5ce6ad847) - _Sandy Sandfort \<sandfort@crl9.crl.com\>_
+ 1997-01-25 (Fri, 24 Jan 1997 16:43:18 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Airport security [no such thing] - _dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)_

56
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-09 - Re: SSL Insecurity
## Header Data
From: Tom Weinstein \<tomw@netscape.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0155a80baf7abbdcfaf8d897a1c01f9a6071d508a05ced2dbaafe2f4fddfd30f<br>
Message ID: \<32D567A5.794B@netscape.com\><br>
Reply To: \<3.0.32.19970109124118.00920db0@gateway.grumman.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-09 21:45:25 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 13:45:25 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Tom Weinstein <tomw@netscape.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 13:45:25 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: SSL Insecurity
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970109124118.00920db0@gateway.grumman.com>
Message-ID: <32D567A5.794B@netscape.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Rick Osborne wrote:
>
> A while back, someone posted an article on the insecurity of
> Netscape's implementation of SSL. Can someone send me back that
> article, or a few pointers as to where I can find related information?
As far as I know, all holes in our SSL implementation were fixed long
ago. If anyone knows of any that still exist, I'd love to hear about
them.
--
You should only break rules of style if you can | Tom Weinstein
coherently explain what you gain by so doing. | tomw@netscape.com
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-09 (Thu, 9 Jan 1997 09:42:07 -0800 (PST)) - [SSL Insecurity](/archive/1997/01/578ab1c9ab6bea89598efcd96d2d20a8d0f5016bd2bff10b99aa244d853047a8) - _Rick Osborne \<osborne@gateway.grumman.com\>_
+ 1997-01-09 (Thu, 9 Jan 1997 13:45:25 -0800 (PST)) - Re: SSL Insecurity - _Tom Weinstein \<tomw@netscape.com\>_

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layout: default
---
# 1997-01-29 - Internet companies demonstrate portable security
## Header Data
From: Vipul Ved Prakash \<vipul@pobox.com\><br>
To: Cypherpunks \<rishab@dxm.org\><br>
Message Hash: 0156592539d39c231d37131607597c1261b976fcf0484866cc7c6f74e9550375<br>
Message ID: \<199701290028.QAA08966@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-29 00:28:08 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 16:28:08 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Vipul Ved Prakash <vipul@pobox.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 16:28:08 -0800 (PST)
To: Cypherpunks <rishab@dxm.org>
Subject: Internet companies demonstrate portable security
Message-ID: <199701290028.QAA08966@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
(Forward)
Internet companies demonstrate portable security
Six Internet companies have joined forces to develop a joint
demonstration of smartcard technologies at the 1997 RSA Data Security
Conference. Consensus Development Corporation, Gemplus,
Hewlett-Packard, Litronic Inc., Netscape Communications Corporation
and VeriSign, Inc., Monday announced "The Get Smartcard Demo." The
interactive demo will allow each conference attendee to load X509v3
certificates on crypto-enabled smartcards. Participants will interact
with the demo through mutually authenticated SSL connections and
document signing. For the full text story, see
http://www.merc.com/stories/cgi/story.cgi?id=1274540-213
--
Vipul Ved Prakash | - Electronic Security & Crypto
vipul@pobox.com | - Web Objects
91 11 2233328 | - PERL Development
198 Madhuban IP Extension | - Linux & Open Systems
Delhi, INDIA 110 092 | - Networked Multimedia
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-29 (Tue, 28 Jan 1997 16:28:08 -0800 (PST)) - Internet companies demonstrate portable security - _Vipul Ved Prakash \<vipul@pobox.com\>_

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layout: default
---
# 1997-01-27 - Re: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks mailing list
## Header Data
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 01758bcc478e781748c05c4ae28418c38050e3b1230ea0bf5e3345fd1a42897c<br>
Message ID: \<8Z161D74w165w@bwalk.dm.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-27 01:30:33 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 17:30:33 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 17:30:33 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks mailing list
Message-ID: <8Z161D74w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk writes:
>
> > > > My perfectly crypto-relevant article regarding possible attacks
> > > > on human relationships with the use of forged mail and anonymous
> > > > remailers, has been tossed out (sorted) into cypherpunks-flames
> > > > mailing list.
> > >
> > > I don`t think I read the article (even though I subscribe to the
> > > unmoderated list), can you forward me a copy.
> > > As I understand it though, from other comentaries, it was junked
> > > because it was in response to a message by Dimitri who, given that it
> > > is Sandy that is moderating the list, is no doubt filtered by
> > > different criteria than anyone else on the list, in my opinion a
> > > censorous and fascist restraint as Dimitri has recently been posting
> > > more crypto relevant material, besides which whatever the content of
> > > his posts they should be open to review before a decision is made on
> > > if they are to be junked or not.
> >
> > Has Paul reversed his previous pro-censorship stand and decided to
> > learn something about crypto from people who actually know some?
>
> There is no change of stance needed, I happen to believe you are
> knowledgable about cryptography and sometimes post worthwhile
> commentary and information, however, you also post a lot of dreck and
> flammable material which means I respond in kind. That does not mean
> I believe you, or anyone else, should be censored.
I distinctly recall how Paul used to call for censoring me. If he's
changed his mind and really doesn't think that anyone should be censored,
it's a welcome development - even if it was brought on by the sandfart
censoring Paul.
> > > > Sandy also states rather plainly that crypto-relevance is not the
> > > > criterion by which he moderates this list. I question this policy.
> > >
> > > Yes Sandy, please enlighten us, what is the criterion you use to
> > > moderate the list if not crypto-relevancy. I suspect an element of
> > > self preservation and protection of the list fuhrer and diktat maker
> > > John Gilmore (who, until the disgraceful incident with Dimitri
> > > commanded some respect on this list).
> >
> > I used to respect Gilmore until this series of incidents (unsubscribing
> > me, turning list moderated). Now I only have disdain for him.
>
> I agree entirely, Gilmore was a respected man (despite the EFF being
> a corporate whore) who threw any respect and admiration others had
> for him away.
I wonder what he thinks he got in exchange...
> > > > I would like to hear your opinions as to whether such policies satisfy
> > > > the current readership.
> > >
> > > I don`t think this is the point, John Gilmore is free to appoint
> > > whoever he wants to moderate his list, he is free to censor all
> > > messages which criticise him and his censorship, however, subscribers
> > > to the list should be told they are being censored on these grounds
> > > and not on some facade of "crypto relevancy" or another thin veil
> > > drawn weakly over content based censorship to protect a certain class
> > > of list members.
> >
> > Quite a few people have expressed interest in re-creating an unmoderated
> > cypherpunks list at another site if Gilmore decided to stick to his
> > "moderation experiment".
>
> I notice and appreciate the quotes around "moderation experiment",
> this is, without doubt, a permenant measure to silence members of the
> list who dare to offer criticism of anyone an element of {x: x a
> friend or co-censor of John Gilmore}
Yes - clearly the personality of the submitter is the most important
factor in moderator's rejections, not even the content.
> I do not have the resources to run such an unmoderated list but I
> hope someone on this list does and is good enough to start such a
> list, cypherpunks is a shell of what it once was.
I notice that the sandfart has been challenging his enemies to create
an alternative mailing list. I wonder what their contingency plan is.
Without a doubt, such a competing list would be mailbombed and flooded
with garbage by Gilmore and his entourage. What else?
> Also, please note this message will be junked onto cypherpunks-flames
> even though it contains no flames or flame bait because it dares to
> criticise the censorship of the list (once again Sandy, I give you an
> opportunity to prove me wrong).
The sandfart has proven me right already. As I said, I think we're
paying too much attention to him and his censorship, and he's just
a front for Gilmore anyway.
---
Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-27 (Sun, 26 Jan 1997 17:30:33 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks mailing list - _dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)_

53
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# 1997-01-28 - [[[ Worldwide Computer Based Business ! ]]]
## Header Data
From: bigboy@gte.net (Ernie Steefan)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 017e109c3e6cf7983d270fd33c59f6603658fef3dd3d13922bdefe495e8fe3d4<br>
Message ID: \<Ready Aim Fire!_1/27/97 7:20:05 PM_bigboy@gte.net\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-28 00:18:42 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 16:18:42 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: bigboy@gte.net (Ernie Steefan)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 16:18:42 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: [[[ Worldwide Computer Based Business ! ]]]
Message-ID: <Ready Aim Fire!_1/27/97 7:20:05 PM_bigboy@gte.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
If you have a PC and want to achieve real Financial Independence then you MUST
take a look at our Powerful Computer Based Business.
No matter who you are or where you live, Our Business is Universal.
We distribute software and information all over the world through E-Mail and the
Internet.
Our program called PC-SUPER-MLM is the most simple and powerful MONEY MAKING software in the world!. of course, you don't have to believe me until you see
the actual program.
Reply to this message and i will send you a FRE copy of the PC-SUPER-MLM
software via E-Mail as an attachement.
Have a great day !.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-28 (Mon, 27 Jan 1997 16:18:42 -0800 (PST)) - [[[ Worldwide Computer Based Business ! ]]] - _bigboy@gte.net (Ernie Steefan)_

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layout: default
---
# 1997-01-11 - Re: would you be my friend?
## Header Data
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 018bb58144e600884f057ec88d7a98ecd7c4275903bfa874d34f135a7fb2390e<br>
Message ID: \<3Pic1D48w165w@bwalk.dm.com\><br>
Reply To: \<Pine.3.89.9701101253.A11382-0100000@netcom17\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-11 03:20:11 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 19:20:11 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 19:20:11 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: would you be my friend?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9701101253.A11382-0100000@netcom17>
Message-ID: <3Pic1D48w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
"Z.B." <zachb@netcom.com> writes:
> On Fri, 10 Jan 1997, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
>
> > dozer@netwizards.net writes:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I'm 14 years old and I think I may be a gay. I'm looking for some suppor
> > > with a older male age 18-40. Please email if you can help.
> > >
> >
> > I'm sure you'll make lots of friends on the cypherpunks mailing list.
> >
> Looks like he's already made one.
Dozer,
John Gilmore is 58 - would you consider a MUCH older man?
---
Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-11 (Fri, 10 Jan 1997 19:20:11 -0800 (PST)) - Re: would you be my friend? - _dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)_

52
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layout: default
---
# 1997-01-18 - No Subject
## Header Data
From: Bovine Remailer \<haystack@holy.cow.net\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 019152362dc38614dee82d7283e7e310f9061a127b704662b596e199921408f1<br>
Message ID: \<199701180655.BAA12721@holy.cow.net\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-18 07:12:59 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:12:59 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Bovine Remailer <haystack@holy.cow.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:12:59 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199701180655.BAA12721@holy.cow.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Timothy May's obsessive masturbation has lead to
advanced degree of blindness and hairy palms.
___
\/ \/
|_O O_| Timothy May
| ^ |
/ UUU \
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-18 (Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:12:59 -0800 (PST)) - No Subject - _Bovine Remailer \<haystack@holy.cow.net\>_
+ 1997-01-18 (Fri, 17 Jan 1997 23:54:45 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: your mail](/archive/1997/01/5e05e2041d9a947d471e49206112393832e97001fc5ec0fcd27a6c7a326999e4) - _Dan Harmon \<harmon@tenet.edu\>_
+ 1997-01-18 (Sat, 18 Jan 1997 10:50:25 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: your mail](/archive/1997/01/090c156acb66f3f71a3f1864f76c5db9b4f02815e875fc1c5b67d108daf6fe52) - _dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)_

54
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---
# 1997-01-03 - RE: Crypto reg clarification from Commerce Department
## Header Data
From: Blanc Weber \<blancw@microsoft.com\><br>
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com\><br>
Message Hash: 0194c38bc70c33a0ce106ee1cc4e43d65a08acfa1d7bcf9b036a6206379777eb<br>
Message ID: \<c=US%a=_%p=msft%l=RED-81-MSG-970103194919Z-73218@INET-03-IMC.itg.microsoft.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-03 19:50:05 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:50:05 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Blanc Weber <blancw@microsoft.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:50:05 -0800 (PST)
To: "'cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: RE: Crypto reg clarification from Commerce Department
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=msft%l=RED-81-MSG-970103194919Z-73218@INET-03-IMC.itg.microsoft.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
The General Prohibitions:
(ii): You may not, without a license from BXA, think about technical
things with respect to encryption items, as described in Sec 744.9 of
the EAR.Instead, when you reason upon the validity and consequencs of
your
code or your actions, you will set your neural systems to reference
Sec. 736.2(b)(10) and Sec. 764.2 (b) & (e).
..
Blanc
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-03 (Fri, 3 Jan 1997 11:50:05 -0800 (PST)) - RE: Crypto reg clarification from Commerce Department - _Blanc Weber \<blancw@microsoft.com\>_

72
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layout: default
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# 1997-01-10 - Re: Cadaverine
## Header Data
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0196d02cbbda550adf821132c7b39f5dcd7325a345e01b226e44b0574a9721fe<br>
Message ID: \<R0La1D45w165w@bwalk.dm.com\><br>
Reply To: \<trc7-0901971628460001@132.236.65.182\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-10 04:10:42 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 20:10:42 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 20:10:42 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Cadaverine
In-Reply-To: <trc7-0901971628460001@132.236.65.182>
Message-ID: <R0La1D45w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Path: perun!news2.panix.com!panix!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!howland.erols.net!news3.cac.psu.edu!news.tc.cornell.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!NewsWatcher!user
From: trc7@cornell.edu (Sam bovis)
Newsgroups: alt.revenge
Subject: Re: Cadaverine
Message-ID: <trc7-0901971628460001@132.236.65.182>
Date: Thu, 09 Jan 1997 16:28:46 -0500
References: <5all7p$ccv@basement.replay.com> <32d36497.310784677@news.concentric.net>
Sender: trc7@cornell.edu (Verified)
Organization: Not too good
Lines: 18
NNTP-Posting-Host: 132
In article <32d36497.310784677@news.concentric.net>, Elmer@fudd.com (Elmer
the Wabbit Eater) wrote:
> nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous) spewed forth:
>
> >:I'm looking for a company who sells a product call Cadaverine.
> >:
Try Sigma Chemical Company out of St. Louis, MO. They are a large
supplier of very pure scientific supplies. Contact them to see what their
policies are in selling non-lethal compounds to people off the street.
Cadaverine is a by-product of protein fermentation by bacteria and is not
harmful. If you are planning to bomb someone's home with it, it will
dissipate over a couple of days because it is so volatile. Another source
is dog training supply houses, body-locating dogs are trained by use of
cadaverine and putrescine, another similar compound. Hope this helps.
L. Rumen
JKoB
Large Hairball available upon request
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-10 (Thu, 9 Jan 1997 20:10:42 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Cadaverine - _dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)_

62
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---
# 1997-01-30 - The BrydDes descracker. Beta-version available.
## Header Data
From: svolaf@inet.uni-c.dk (Svend Olaf Mikkelsen)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 01bcb76f54766b4268ec4806a5476ce5e9c6fc088cd820b54f530639002e2de5<br>
Message ID: \<32f5c492.24108705@mail.uni-c.dk\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-30 16:00:20 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 08:00:20 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: svolaf@inet.uni-c.dk (Svend Olaf Mikkelsen)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 08:00:20 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: The BrydDes descracker. Beta-version available.
Message-ID: <32f5c492.24108705@mail.uni-c.dk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
BrydDes is a DOS program, which issues a known plaintext attack for
DES encryption. The method is brute force.
ECB mode and CBC mode with known IV are supported.
On a Pentium 120, this version of the program can test 369,000 keys in
a second.
Please note that this is a beta-release. A new version will be shipped
February 11th, or earlier if errors are discovered.
So far source is not included. Automatic restart from the last key
tested is not supported yet, but a shell could be written.
The code is tested on a Pentium, but should run on a 486.
The program is available at http://inet.uni-c.dk/~svolaf/des.htm
Svend Olaf
PS. "Bryd" is crack or break in Danish.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-30 (Thu, 30 Jan 1997 08:00:20 -0800 (PST)) - The BrydDes descracker. Beta-version available. - _svolaf@inet.uni-c.dk (Svend Olaf Mikkelsen)_

56
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layout: default
---
# 1997-01-24 - PSS_sst
## Header Data
From: John Young \<jya@pipeline.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 01daa8aa54af3cdb7ed257279fa9a84000300d764e9b79ec7725a0517cc85f5e<br>
Message ID: \<199701241817.KAA02540@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-24 18:17:55 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:17:55 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: John Young <jya@pipeline.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:17:55 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: PSS_sst
Message-ID: <199701241817.KAA02540@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
New Scientist of 25 January reviews the Bernstein's
case against crypto export, US global seduction of
foreign goverrments to suppress domestic calls for
privacy, and therewith deftly alerts British leaders and
readers to undermining the "secretive bureaucratic"
Uncle Sam scam, says the deft-underminer cpunkers
quoted.
-----
PSS_sst
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-24 (Fri, 24 Jan 1997 10:17:55 -0800 (PST)) - PSS_sst - _John Young \<jya@pipeline.com\>_

63
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---
# 1997-01-02 - Cash-Grabber-Reversal !!!
## Header Data
From: bizman@mwt.net<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 01e1c00e39b6717be9160ad4523cebda628314fab46d5ef538b983246c3cce6f<br>
Message ID: \<199701020451.WAA12633@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-02 04:52:16 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 20:52:16 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: bizman@mwt.net
Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 20:52:16 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Cash-Grabber-Reversal !!!
Message-ID: <199701020451.WAA12633@westbyserver.westby.mwt.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Some time ago....you shared an email message with me.
I'm not going to tell you to quit doing what your doing but...
I will share something that may help and compliment your
current offer.
Yours FREE! I will send you a copy of my "Reversal Letter" that
has made over $1.098.00 last month. Use this powerful letter
to anyone who sends you a offer via direct mail.
The "Reversal Letter" is sent snail mail only, If you would like
to get a copy of this "money-grabbing...cash producing letter"
email me your snail mail address. If you are working a Primary MLM
or business opportunity...feel free to let us know, The Reversal
Letter is sent to people who send you their offers. Powerful!
Thank You!
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-02 (Wed, 1 Jan 1997 20:52:16 -0800 (PST)) - Cash-Grabber-Reversal !!! - _bizman@mwt.net_

52
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layout: default
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# 1997-01-27 - re: fighting the cybercensor
## Header Data
From: Howard Campbell \<woody@hi.net\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 01e1cb2129a96adc01b72b6a0a8db42c25897b0caf9b34e0bf7f0bd157ae8cb7<br>
Message ID: \<199701270611.UAA04805@pohaku.hi.net\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-27 06:07:59 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 22:07:59 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Howard Campbell <woody@hi.net>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 22:07:59 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: re: fighting the cybercensor
Message-ID: <199701270611.UAA04805@pohaku.hi.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
A recent publication "The Sovereign Individual"('97) discusses many of the issues discussed on Cypherpunks. The authors, James Dale Davidson and Lord William Rees-Mogg, sketch the likely totalitarian scenarios that will emerge in the coming years. Just as we see every day in the media, they predict that we ain't seen nothing yet when it comes to the attempts to regulate cyberspace, cryptography, and the content of online information. Portraying cellular phone triangulation as a public health concern, etc., are just the beginning.
The authors also paint a bleak picture for blanc's 'True Believer' types. They will continue to be milked "as a farmer milks his cows" while those with techno-savvy and 'extranational' savoir faire will grow wings and take their wealth and marketable skills to other jurisdictions where predatory taxmen and arbitrary civil forfeiture laws don't exist.
The book is sort of Toffleresque, but written better and full of historical parallels that help the reader to understand social upheavals of the past and how the demise of failing contemporary institutions are likely to affect Joe windowz95.
Example: chapter 4- "The Last Days of Politics: Parallels Betwen the Senile Decline of the Holy Mother Church and the Nanny State".
aloha,
wc
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-27 (Sun, 26 Jan 1997 22:07:59 -0800 (PST)) - re: fighting the cybercensor - _Howard Campbell \<woody@hi.net\>_

51
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layout: default
---
# 1997-01-29 - Re: Last nail for US crypto export policy?
## Header Data
From: falk@Eng.Sun.COM (Ed Falk)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 01e798451af28d6f61c178adea840bc05881472b311d19db3963621caae32ed0<br>
Message ID: \<199701291740.JAA23726@peregrine.eng.sun.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-29 17:41:52 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:41:52 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: falk@Eng.Sun.COM (Ed Falk)
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:41:52 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Last nail for US crypto export policy?
Message-ID: <199701291740.JAA23726@peregrine.eng.sun.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
> I just ran out of asswipe.
> Does anyone have any RSA Data Security, Inc. stock they'd like to
> sell?
Now, now. I don't think RSADSI had any illusions of 40-bit keys being
secure; they just wanted to find out just *how* insecure they were.
I suspect that this crack will *benefit* RSADSI, and the rest of the
crypto community, by helping to convince the feds to ease up.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-29 (Wed, 29 Jan 1997 09:41:52 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Last nail for US crypto export policy? - _falk@Eng.Sun.COM (Ed Falk)_
+ 1997-01-29 (Wed, 29 Jan 1997 10:30:17 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: Last nail for US crypto export policy?](/archive/1997/01/65fe0e72e2e424ebf4ad2fd936e52a0904b996665cd75c367cad48cb5a5346cf) - _Toto \<toto@sk.sympatico.ca\>_

63
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layout: default
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# 1997-01-26 - PGPmail for Windows, Version 4.5
## Header Data
From: Duncan Frissell \<frissell@panix.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 01fb3015e2eb76e05537a00b0a62f24dc03d70af62f34193a79f10a130d11491<br>
Message ID: \<3.0.1.32.19970126114551.0173b44c@panix.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-26 16:46:07 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:46:07 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Duncan Frissell <frissell@panix.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:46:07 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: PGPmail for Windows, Version 4.5
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970126114551.0173b44c@panix.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Anyone running Windows 95 who hasn't grabbed the beta of PGPmail 4.5 from
http://www.pgp.com/ is crazy. It works seamlessly with Netscape 3.0 and Eudora Pro 3.0. The 30-day demo of Eudora Pro is at: http://www.eudora.com/prodemo/.
It is easy to use. I just installed it and pointed it at my old pubring.pgp and secring.pgp files and went to work. All my messages have been signed since then and some have been encrypted. The installation program found my existing copies of Eudora and Netscape and installed the PGP add in without any fuss.
My only problem was finding the controls for the add in which (in the case of Eudora) consist of buttons to encrypt, sign, bring up the program, insert a copy of your key, and actually modify the message. The controls only appear on the message create, and message read windows.
Easy to use.
DCF
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 4.5
iQCVAgUBMuuKMYVO4r4sgSPhAQFfzAP+LkDjOecHxz0iEVVggLLABxAOE9tVyOLl
AIkKlagFqK+lBboo7fETCZtSpmDHcNsJG6Et6BWO5aYf7Artw+jXj+734c+w4RWj
zcj6+351LUqT60TmcukH02p2MT0sd8w1dAnhD8+o1E13G5h5N1CF/p6KQjmHOiQ6
9T1ehMax0jE=
=E8Pu
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-26 (Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:46:07 -0800 (PST)) - PGPmail for Windows, Version 4.5 - _Duncan Frissell \<frissell@panix.com\>_

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# 1997-01-25 - Voting to require Photo ID in Michigan
## Header Data
From: lwp@mail.msen.com (Lou Poppler)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 02118a2cd60647e5edc8808156a09f8f47f6f7b6e43442506ed85297c9732d46<br>
Message ID: \<1No6yMz2B8IT083yn@mail.msen.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-25 22:39:33 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:39:33 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: lwp@mail.msen.com (Lou Poppler)
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:39:33 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Voting to require Photo ID in Michigan
Message-ID: <1No6yMz2B8IT083yn@mail.msen.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Late last year, in the final days that Republicans controlled both
houses of the Michigan Legislature, they passed a new law requiring
citizen-units to show a picture ID in order to vote. This law was
signed by Governor John Engler earlier this month. Here I reproduce
without permission a news brief from the Lansing State Journal,
which gives some reactions to the new law. Particularly interesting
to me is the promise of selective enforcement from the Governor's
spokesman.
' LAWMAKER SEEKS VOTER LAW REVIEW
' Pontiac -- A Republican lawmaker has asked the U.S. Justice
' Department to review a new state law that will require voters to show
' photo identification to cast ballots.
' Rep. Greg Kaza of Rochester Hills wrote to Attorney General Janet
' Reno this week to seek the review, The Oakland Press reported Thursday.
' The new law requires all voters to have a state photo ID card, such
' as a driver's license or an ID card people receiving public assistance
' are required to have.
' Kaza said Wednesday he wrote to Reno that "Public Act 583 of 1996
' has the potential to intimidate certain classes of voters, including
' senior citizens, from exercising their democratic right to vote. They
' should not be disenfranchised from exercising their right to vote
' under the United States Constitution."
' Gov. John Engler signed the bill last week. His administration
' says it is needed to protect the integrity of the voting process, but
' critics, mostly Democrats, say it would exclude some people from voting.
' "It is our belief you need an ID in society today," Engler spokesman
' John Truscott said. "And only if you are challenged at the ballot box
' do you have to show an ID."
' Michigan Attorney General Frank Kelley already has been asked to
' issue an opinion on whether the new law is constitutional.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: "We are surrounded by
:: Lou Poppler <lwp@mail.msen.com> :: insurmountable opportunity."
:: http://www.msen.com/~lwp/ ::
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: -- Pogo (Walt Kelly)
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-25 (Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:39:33 -0800 (PST)) - Voting to require Photo ID in Michigan - _lwp@mail.msen.com (Lou Poppler)_

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# 1997-01-21 - Re: Airport security [no such thing]
## Header Data
From: Adam Shostack \<adam@homeport.org\><br>
To: Alan Bostick \<abostick@netcom.com\><br>
Message Hash: 021fdd0585bf830d347b376f74f2649bb51534763088e92602aa3e69ffc97e04<br>
Message ID: \<199701210416.UAA28041@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-21 04:16:04 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 20:16:04 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Adam Shostack <adam@homeport.org>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 20:16:04 -0800 (PST)
To: Alan Bostick <abostick@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Airport security [no such thing]
Message-ID: <199701210416.UAA28041@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Recall that all security is economics. The airlines want the
appearance of security without having to pay for it.
The '3 questions' ("Pack your luggage? let it out of your
sight? Taking any gifts?") originated with El Al, where they are the
introduction to a very expensive (and privacy invading) set of
screening questions. The El Al people are trained to watch you as
they ask the questions, and respond to signs of lying or rehersal.
The Americans read the questions off the screen, and pay no attention
to your answers.
The market, however, is irrational*, and airlines prefer to
have government imposed regulations over having to actually figure out
what works, and do it.
*The market is irrational because statistics on what airlines
are safer than others is closely held knowledge of the FAA.
Adam
Alan Bostick wrote:
| She presented the gate agent with *four* tickets and *four* IDs. "Where
| are these other people?" the agent asked. "They're parking the car,"
| said the traveler. The agent gave her all four boarding passes; and my
| companion and I were bumped to the third boarding group.
|
| The woman in front of us was white and middle-class-looking, traveling
| with what appeared to be her family. One wonders what would have
| happened were she a swarthy man wearing robes and a burnoose. Or if she
| were just wearing shabby clothes.
--
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
-Hume
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-21 (Mon, 20 Jan 1997 20:16:04 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Airport security [no such thing] - _Adam Shostack \<adam@homeport.org\>_
+ 1997-01-21 (Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:52:24 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: Airport security [no such thing]](/archive/1997/01/306f1dfd6b8f54223657dde7e8bd5b19c153507ac2c0795841b5863d6cd597cc) - _Eric Murray \<ericm@lne.com\>_

135
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# 1997-01-07 - RSA and Cylink settle
## Header Data
From: Bruce Schneier \<schneier@counterpane.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 023e09a91566905f86560930668a6fdf0e53ea15c09f186f81647143cbec6b91<br>
Message ID: \<v03007801aef80803b772@[206.11.192.107]\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-07 15:03:14 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 07:03:14 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Bruce Schneier <schneier@counterpane.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 07:03:14 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RSA and Cylink settle
Message-ID: <v03007801aef80803b772@[206.11.192.107]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Subj: Cylink and RSA Data Security Reach Legal Settlement; Public Key
Encryption Compa
Date: Tue, Jan 7, 1997 7:52 AM EST
From: AOLNewsProfiles@aol.net
REDWOOD CITY, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jan. 7, 1997--RSA Data
Security, Inc., a wholly-owned subsidiary of Security Dynamics
Technologies, Inc. (NASDAQ:SDTI), and Cylink Corporation
(NASDAQ:CYLK), today announced a comprehensive global settlement of
their long-standing legal disputes.
The settlement ends all outstanding litigation between Cylink and
RSA.
The two companies reached an amicable resolution of their
disputes. As part of the settlement, Cylink granted to RSA all
necessary rights to Cylink's Stanford patents, and RSA granted to
Cylink a license to RSA's cryptographic software toolkits.
For both parties, the settlement ends further prolongation of a
legal dispute that has been costly and distracting. RSA is
fulfilling the promise made to its customers to resolve the disputes
with Cylink. Cylink, under its new president and chief executive, is
refocusing all of its energies on providing end-to-end data security
products and solutions, and has the ability to incorporate RSA or
other technologies to meet customer requirements.
"We are very pleased that what had so long seemed to be an
intractable problem has, within the space of 10 days, now been
resolved by the new management at Cylink," said James Bidzos,
president of RSA. "I worked well with Fernand Sarrat while he was at
IBM, and that working relationship helped us reach this agreement so
swiftly. This agreement turns long-time antagonists into companies
that are already exploring ways of working together constructively,
to the benefit of the industry as a whole."
Fernand Sarrat, president and chief executive officer of Cylink,
said, "We are setting out on an aggressive new course at Cylink in
which old disputes are an unnecessary distraction. RSA will be one
of our strategic suppliers and we anticipate focusing totally on the
needs of our customers and the enormous market opportunity before
us."
RSA Data Security, Inc.
RSA Data Security, Inc., a wholly-owned subsidiary of Security
Dynamics Technologies, Inc. (NASDAQ: SDTI), is the world's brand
name for cryptography, with more than 75 million copies of RSA
encryption and authentication technologies installed and in use
worldwide.
RSA technologies are part of existing and proposed standards for
the Internet and World Wide Web, IT4, ISO, ANSI, IEEE, business,
financial and electronic commerce networks around the globe. The
company develops and markets platform-independent developer's kits
and end-user products and provides comprehensive cryptographic
consulting services.
Founded in 1982 by the inventors of the RSA Public Key
Cryptosystem, the company is headquartered in Redwood City, Calif.
Cylink Corporation
Cylink Corporation (NASDAQ: CYLK) is a leading worldwide supplier
of information security solutions, providing the most comprehensive
portfolio of public key cryptographic hardware and software products
available today. Cylink's products enable secure transmissions over
local area networks (LANs), wide area networks (WANs), public packet
switched networks such as the Internet, asynchronous transfer mode
(ATM) and frame relay networks.
Cylink, headquartered in Sunnyvale, Calif., is also the
leader in outdoor spread spectrum microwave radio communications.
Cylink's customers include national and multinational corporations,
financial institutions and government organizations. For more
information about Cylink and its products, call the fax-on-demand
number 800/735-6614, or visit the company's Web site at
http://www.cylink.com.
--30--mg/sf* eh
CONTACT:
Cylink
Paula Contos Dunne, 408/523-5993
pdunne@cylink.com
or
Edelman Worldwide
Ina McGuinness, 415/433-5381 x 213
imcguinn@edelman.com
or
Patrick Corman
Patrick Corman, 415/326-9648
Corman@cerfnet.com
************************************************************************
* Bruce Schneier 2,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,002,000,
* Counterpane Systems 000,000,000,000,000,000,002,000,000,002,293
* schneier@counterpane.com The last prime number...alphabetically!
* (612) 823-1098 Two vigintillion, two undecillion, two
* 101 E Minnehaha Pkwy trillion, two thousand, two hundred and
* Minneapolis, MN 55419 ninety three.
* http://www.counterpane.com
************************************************************************
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-07 (Tue, 7 Jan 1997 07:03:14 -0800 (PST)) - RSA and Cylink settle - _Bruce Schneier \<schneier@counterpane.com\>_
+ 1997-01-08 (Tue, 7 Jan 1997 21:33:05 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: RSA and Cylink settle](/archive/1997/01/7f320d44d79c9c0f9064efa666e0202f2f906bd187335c66bd097c7bd631821c) - _Toto \<toto@sk.sympatico.ca\>_

72
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# 1997-01-28 - RE: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks mailing list
## Header Data
From: Sean Roach \<roach_s@alph.swosu.edu\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0247ee1237e0f32e67d6c1be97e5f645dacbf6999bb6eb4a7ccef82ace62297c<br>
Message ID: \<199701280351.TAA15925@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-28 03:52:07 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:52:07 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Sean Roach <roach_s@alph.swosu.edu>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:52:07 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks mailing list
Message-ID: <199701280351.TAA15925@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 02:04 PM 1/27/97 -0800, Sandy Sandfort wrote:
...
>Eric, would like to require a deposit ($20 was the example he
>gave) from subscriber/posters. Non-subscribers would not be
>allowed to post. Subscribers who voluntarily left the list,
>would get their deposit back. Subscribers who flamed twice
>(every dog gets one bite) would be kicked off the list and their
>deposit would be forfeited (or perhaps turned over to the flame
>victim).
I know that this wasn't your idea, and am not critisizing you.
This idea would be great if everyone had an equal access to funds. Persons
willing to part with funds could flame people indiscriminately. Persons
with more money, meaning no bills or very few in relation to capitol, would
be more willing to part with funds. Suddendly, the rich control the press
again, at least to the extent that they would be able to say anything. The
rich would be more equal.
The plan could be hacked. With several accounts, perhaps stolen, forged,
etc. a person submits the $20, flames h[is/er] victim, unsubscribes,
collects h[is/er] deposit, resubscribes under a new name, and repeats the cycle.
Plus, as has been said before, the definition of a flame is subjective. It
has been shown that children with more symettrical faces get along better
with teachers. It has been shown that even uncorrupted babies know what
physical beauty is. If there is any ability to pre-judge a persons
character before reading the post, than the post is more likely to be judged
accordingly.
I hope that you will be fair in your determinations, and I assume that you
will do your best. But I still worry, only because that you are human.
And humans make mistakes.
At least the current moderation doesn't cost any one twenty bucks.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-28 (Mon, 27 Jan 1997 19:52:07 -0800 (PST)) - RE: Rejection policy of the Cypherpunks mailing list - _Sean Roach \<roach_s@alph.swosu.edu\>_

156
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# 1997-01-29 - AltaVista sprouts a hole ...
## Header Data
From: Robert Hettinga \<rah@shipwright.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 024ba4d5c8e51d93c51f8f37dae34f0573ce240f4ccb09d4158c70c9f2a95420<br>
Message ID: \<v0300780baf1450361414@[139.167.130.246]\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-29 00:59:41 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 16:59:41 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Robert Hettinga <rah@shipwright.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 16:59:41 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: AltaVista sprouts a hole ...
Message-ID: <v0300780baf1450361414@[139.167.130.246]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
--- begin forwarded text
Sender: e$@thumper.vmeng.com
Reply-To: Russell Stuart <R.Stuart@rsm.com.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Precedence: Bulk
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 08:07:27 +1000
From: Russell Stuart <R.Stuart@rsm.com.au>
To: Multiple recipients of <e$@thumper.vmeng.com>
Subject: AltaVista sprouts a hole ...
From: risko@csl.sri.com (RISKS List Owner)
Newsgroups: comp.risks
Subject: RISKS DIGEST 18.77
Message-ID: <CMM.0.90.1.853810937.risko@chiron.csl.sri.com>
RISKS-LIST: Risks-Forum Digest Monday 20 January 1997 Volume 18 :
Issue 77
FORUM ON RISKS TO THE PUBLIC IN COMPUTERS AND RELATED SYSTEMS
(comp.risks)
ACM Committee on Computers and Public Policy, Peter G. Neumann,
moderator
***** See last item for further information, disclaimers, caveats, etc.
*****
<snip>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 97 23:52:00 +0100
From: Anders Andersson <andersa@Mizar.DoCS.UU.SE>
Subject: Leaking WWW surfer interest profiles
I notice that AltaVista's inline advertisements link to a server outside
Digital, "ad.doubleclick.net", and that the URL includes the user's list
of
keywords being searched. I'm concerned that these URL's may
occasionally
leak information about the user's interests and inclinations to third
parties, information which the user may prefer to keep private.
This is not a new problem that appeared with the inline ads, since also
the
Referer: field of the HTTP protocol discloses to a target server exactly
what AltaVista index page led the user to it. However, this requires
that
the user willfully follows that link.
If sensitive information being leaked via the Referer: field is a
problem,
the user may obtain client software that withholds Referer: data, either
conditionally or unconditionally. Also, a user who has asked AltaVista
for
"gay" pages is probably not too concerned about accidentally disclosing
this
fact to the maintainer of said "gay" pages.
However, the doubleclick.net ads appear to bear no relationship to the
keywords being searched, and they appear not only in the URL for the
hyperlink to follow, but also in the IMG SRC URL. This means that in
order
to avoid disclosing my keyword lists to doubleclick.net, I have to
disable
automatic loading of inline images when using AltaVista!
Why is it that when I perform a search for, say, "gay OR nazi AND
scientology", AltaVista tricks my browser to give this very search
string
away to an advertising company by means of an inline image (the contents
of
which has nothing to do with my search)? I think I can trust the
AltaVista
maintainers not to save my keyword lists for future analysis, but what
about
an advertising company?
It's kind of serendipity reversed. When you open a book to look up
information on a specific subject, the book scans your mind to find out
what
other interests and hobbies you have.
Anders Andersson, Dept. of Computer Systems, Uppsala University
Box 325, S-751 05 UPPSALA, Sweden +46 18 183170 andersa@DoCS.UU.SE
------------------------------
<snip>
Regards
Russell Stuart
Software Development Manager
RSM Technology PTY LTD
----------------------
Phone: +61 7 3844 9631
Fax: +61 7 3844 9522
Email: R.Stuart@rsm.com.au
--- end forwarded text
-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"The cost of anything is the foregone alternative" -- Walter Johnson
The e$ Home Page: http://www.shipwright.com/rah/
FC97: Anguilla, anyone? http://www.ai/fc97/
"If *you* don't go to FC97, *I* don't go to FC97"
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-29 (Tue, 28 Jan 1997 16:59:41 -0800 (PST)) - AltaVista sprouts a hole ... - _Robert Hettinga \<rah@shipwright.com\>_

75
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-22 - David Kahn advocates GAK
## Header Data
From: "Robert Rothenburg 'Walking-Owl'" \<WlkngOwl@unix.asb.com\><br>
To: mech@eff.org<br>
Message Hash: 024f5bd741a990902cdee0d2f3e33cf1608149e4b7b567d9b4cae6f9ba6d6cff<br>
Message ID: \<199701221627.IAA25505@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-22 16:27:25 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:27:25 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: "Robert Rothenburg 'Walking-Owl'" <WlkngOwl@unix.asb.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:27:25 -0800 (PST)
To: mech@eff.org
Subject: David Kahn advocates GAK
Message-ID: <199701221627.IAA25505@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
In today's (22 Jan 97) Long Island, NY Newsday Viewpoints, p. A31:
"Let Feds Overheard Cellular-Phone Talk"
by David Kahn (an editor at Newsday and author of "The Codebreakers")
He intones the usual horseman: "...such criminals as terrorists, drug-
runners, kidnappers and child-pornographers are increasingly using
encryption to conceal their plans and activities, the FBI says."
He also mis-states opponenents of GAK positions, claimingthe
criticism is that "key escrow [at least he doesn't call it key
recovery] won't work all the time", ignoring anti-GAK mentions of
COINTELPRO, J.Edgar Stalin^H^H^H^H^H^HHoover, etc. etc.
And the usual nonsense about "every day that criminal messages can be
heard is a gain" w/out noting that anyone smart enough to use crypto
now will not use it if GAK is fully implemented.
Newsday is part of the LA Times Syndicate, so member papers may also
have the same viewpoint appearing in their pages within the next
couple of days.
Their website is http://www.newsday.com ... I don't know if the
viewpoint is on-line there.
Rob
-----
"The word to kill ain't dirty | Robert Rothenburg (WlkngOwl@unix.asb.com)
I used it in the last line | http://www.asb.com/usr/wlkngowl/
but use a short word for lovin' | Se habla PGP: Reply with the subject
and dad you wind up doin' time." | 'send pgp-key' for my public key.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-22 (Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:27:25 -0800 (PST)) - David Kahn advocates GAK - _"Robert Rothenburg 'Walking-Owl'" \<WlkngOwl@unix.asb.com\>_

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# 1997-01-15 - Re: Hi again, and an invitation to kibitz
## Header Data
From: amanda@intercon.com (Amanda Walker)<br>
To: markm@voicenet.com\><br>
Message Hash: 025587bb2ef65d5fa201ce1f05bd883b46775033b9bb11fb706be5589b945816<br>
Message ID: \<199701151541.KAA26095@mail.intercon.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-15 15:41:47 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 07:41:47 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: amanda@intercon.com (Amanda Walker)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 07:41:47 -0800 (PST)
To: markm@voicenet.com>
Subject: Re: Hi again, and an invitation to kibitz
Message-ID: <199701151541.KAA26095@mail.intercon.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
> > (b) Client sends Microsoft NT authentication response to the server
> > (take the password in Unicode form, do an MD4 hash, pad with 0s to 21
> > bytes, split into 3 7-byte groups, use these as DES keys to encrypt
> > the challenge three times, send the 24-byte result as the response).
>
> I think this can be strengthened in a few ways. The third DES key generated
> using this technique has an effective keylength of 16 bits.
Correct. This is the reason I've been thinking of switching to SHA-1,
which gives a 20-byte hash (leaving only one byte of zeros, which can
be filled in with some function of the other 20 bytes to arrive at 21 bytes).
I haven't found any hole opened by exposing the last two bytes of the MD4
hash, but it's the piece I'm most worried about just on general principles
(never expose more than you have to :)). I'm currently using the NT
algorithm simply because I had it around and needed to get a demo working
for the show. We're not tied to using it, although it would be useful
if we end up doing an NT version of the server (since NT stores the MD4
hashes of passwords, not the plaintext).
> I believe the D-H patent expires sometime in September or October this year.
Yup. April was wishful thinking on my part; we won't adopt D-H until the
patent expires.
> Any unbroken cipher with a keyspace larger than that of DES would be better.
Yup. I started with vanilla DES because I was worried about speed, but
as it turns out the cipher step has a negligible impact on performance.
I'm considering DES-EDE (the easy option), Blowfish (also pretty easy),
or the DES variant Bruce Schneier describes in Applied Cryptography, 2nd ed.
(the one with independent subkeys). So far, DES-EDE and Blowfish are the
front runners, since they're the ones that have been poked at the most.
DES-EDE has the advantage that more people know what DES is (the "buzzword
compliance" factor). I'm not inclined to make the cipher a user-configurable
option unless customers demand it, just to keep the user interface as simple
as humanly possible.
Amanda Walker
InterCon Systems Corporation
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-15 (Wed, 15 Jan 1997 07:41:47 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Hi again, and an invitation to kibitz - _amanda@intercon.com (Amanda Walker)_

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# 1997-01-23 - Re: Dr. Vulis' social engineering experiment
## Header Data
From: Dale Thorn \<dthorn@gte.net\><br>
To: snow \<snow@smoke.suba.com\><br>
Message Hash: 025ce77156b40cdc2f23b8ce679413769979ff9b0f594b0b721cfc4a1fed08fa<br>
Message ID: \<32E78482.5DF6@gte.net\><br>
Reply To: \<199701231347.HAA04161@smoke.suba.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-23 15:33:24 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 07:33:24 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Dale Thorn <dthorn@gte.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 07:33:24 -0800 (PST)
To: snow <snow@smoke.suba.com>
Subject: Re: Dr. Vulis' social engineering experiment
In-Reply-To: <199701231347.HAA04161@smoke.suba.com>
Message-ID: <32E78482.5DF6@gte.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
snow wrote:
> Thorn:
> > Alec wrote:
> > The idea that "sin" and "evil" are abstract and somewhat arbitrary is
> > merely a human (and therefore faulty) perception.
> > If God can be perfect by definition (for sake of argument), then "sin"
> Somewhere in the above three lines, someone is making a hell of an
> asumption. See also "The Euthphro Question", plato.
Humans do OK with simple issues, example: 1 + 1 = 2. Especially true
if the issue has no inherent moral/ethical tie-in. Once you get past
the simple, however, you start seeing motivation, personal imperative,
etc., which leads to hidden agendas and lies. When I speak of God,
I'm not surrendering any personal power, or subscribing to your God
concept necessarily (e.g. Plato), I'm just defining an object of
pure reason that is free of human self-interest, for sake of argument.
> > A gentleman wrote to Southern Partisan magazine a few years ago and
> > said "Real freedom is not the license to do whatever you want, but
> > rather the liberty to do what you ought to do".
> No, real freedom is being able to decide for yourself what you ought to
> do--or--who the hell decides what I ought to do?
My example shows that real freedom goes hand-in-hand with
responsibility.
A person could interpret my example in a way that "what you ought to do"
is defined and controlled by external parties, but that was not my point
or the point of the original author.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-22 (Tue, 21 Jan 1997 21:55:40 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: Dr. Vulis' social engineering experiment](/archive/1997/01/1fe027f20d4e0697b4f7b9931a7481e921474b839153c5c818fe03e51576ad69) - _Dale Thorn \<dthorn@gte.net\>_
+ 1997-01-23 (Thu, 23 Jan 1997 05:30:14 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: Dr. Vulis' social engineering experiment](/archive/1997/01/78750918b0eaf6ee2b56e73ff1f9e5038ed19a77daa79947c8a125db35ed0316) - _snow \<snow@smoke.suba.com\>_
+ 1997-01-23 (Thu, 23 Jan 1997 07:33:24 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Dr. Vulis' social engineering experiment - _Dale Thorn \<dthorn@gte.net\>_

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# 1997-01-06 - Re: Sandy and I will run a cypherpunks "moderation" experiment in Jan
## Header Data
From: Rich Burroughs \<richieb@teleport.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0269ce14e5b40ceea9bb68118eaea74933ff4759ce43bba18a6f575744dc69eb<br>
Message ID: \<3.0.32.19970106082902.009394e0@mail.teleport.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-06 16:28:08 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 08:28:08 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Rich Burroughs <richieb@teleport.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 08:28:08 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Sandy and I will run a cypherpunks "moderation" experiment in Jan
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19970106082902.009394e0@mail.teleport.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 03:06 AM 1/6/97 -0800, toto@sk.sympatico.ca wrote:
>I believe that every "EASY $$$ MONEY" posting ought to be forwarded
>to the webmaster at the site from which it originated.
> Those who are harboring these generous souls should also be afforded
>the opportunity to rake in the cash. I can hardly see how anybody
>could possibly resent being reminded of the wonderful opportuninties
>they are making it possible for us to learn of.
Be careful when mailbombing in retribution for spam. Often the aricles are
forged, and sometimes it's with the direct intention of getting someone
else mailbombed. I traded some email with a system administrator a few
days ago in this boat -- they had cancelled a customer's account, and to
get revenge the former customer sent out a bunch of spam that was forged to
look like it came from this sys admin's domain. Even if the site wasn't
literally mailbombed, the system administrator had to spend a lot of time,
I'm sure, delaing with unhappy recipients of the spam, like myself.
Mailbombing is almost always a bad plan, IMHO, besides being a denial of
service attack and probably illegal in a lot of places.
Rich
______________________________________________________________________
Rich Burroughs richieb@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~richieb
U.S. State Censorship Page at - http://www.teleport.com/~richieb/state
dec96 issue "cause for alarm" - http://www.teleport.com/~richieb/cause
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-06 (Mon, 6 Jan 1997 08:28:08 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Sandy and I will run a cypherpunks "moderation" experiment in Jan - _Rich Burroughs \<richieb@teleport.com\>_

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# 1997-01-07 - Re: PWL's how ?
## Header Data
From: snow \<snow@smoke.suba.com\><br>
To: will@bbsi.net (will)<br>
Message Hash: 028a628e324355f465b66e0a9b8583008f0c0881a2ba2ed865820de729ab444a<br>
Message ID: \<199701070659.AAA06593@smoke.suba.com\><br>
Reply To: \<3.0.32.19970102213451.00691d6c@pophost.bbsi.net\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-07 06:44:22 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 22:44:22 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: snow <snow@smoke.suba.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 22:44:22 -0800 (PST)
To: will@bbsi.net (will)
Subject: Re: PWL's how ?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970102213451.00691d6c@pophost.bbsi.net>
Message-ID: <199701070659.AAA06593@smoke.suba.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
> Also I don't like to seem too much like a rookie, but was is a
> <color><param>ffff,0000,0000</param>polymorphic
> virus</color> ?
It inserts shit like this:
<cõlõr><pãrãm>ffff¸0000¸0000</pãrãm>
into email. It also tends to cause oversized .signature files.
HTH. HAND.
Petro, Christopher C.
petro@suba.com <prefered for any non-list stuff>
snow@smoke.suba.com
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-07 (Mon, 6 Jan 1997 18:35:12 -0800 (PST)) - [PWL's how ?](/archive/1997/01/e86b3f2abfc70adf3a71cdbcd917a67d8dc68b580dc3715affabe75b5c3f7351) - _"will" \<will@bbsi.net\>_
+ 1997-01-07 (Mon, 6 Jan 1997 22:44:22 -0800 (PST)) - Re: PWL's how ? - _snow \<snow@smoke.suba.com\>_

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# 1997-01-25 - language drift
## Header Data
From: Julian Assange \<proff@iq.org\><br>
To: meditation@gnu.ai.mit.edu<br>
Message Hash: 02a4cacabf2714d61636108169df1ed86bc354ed4ccd9b7a108419b11be11b9b<br>
Message ID: \<199701250559.QAA11354@profane.iq.org\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-25 06:01:40 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:01:40 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Julian Assange <proff@iq.org>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:01:40 -0800 (PST)
To: meditation@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Subject: language drift
Message-ID: <199701250559.QAA11354@profane.iq.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
One of my projects involves tracking language drift; i.e the relative
change in word frequency on the internet as time goes by. This is
useful for predicting concept movement, and the anglisization
rates of non-English language countries.
Now, one day while browsing the frequencies from the 10 billion
word corpus, what do I see?
God 2,177,242
America 2,178,046
designed 2,181,106
five 2,189,194
December 2,190,028
;)
-Julian Assange <proff@iq.org>
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-25 (Fri, 24 Jan 1997 22:01:40 -0800 (PST)) - language drift - _Julian Assange \<proff@iq.org\>_

58
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# 1997-01-21 - Re: Airport security [no such thing]
## Header Data
From: drose@azstarnet.com<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 02f93f571dbf184fb4333d120d8982f3dcfe9c43b2dd7841cfc8d15b1021453f<br>
Message ID: \<199701210257.TAA17513@web.azstarnet.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-21 02:57:25 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:57:25 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: drose@azstarnet.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:57:25 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Airport security [no such thing]
Message-ID: <199701210257.TAA17513@web.azstarnet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Alan Bostick wrote:
[...]
>She presented the gate agent with *four* tickets and *four* IDs. "Where
>are these other people?" the agent asked. "They're parking the car,"
>said the traveler. The agent gave her all four boarding passes; and my
>companion and I were bumped to the third boarding group.
>
>The woman in front of us was white and middle-class-looking, traveling
>with what appeared to be her family. One wonders what would have
>happened were she a swarthy man wearing robes and a burnoose. Or if she
>were just wearing shabby clothes.
My guess is that you and your companion would have been further discommoded,
with the possible concomitant saving of your lives.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-21 (Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:57:25 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Airport security [no such thing] - _drose@azstarnet.com_

63
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# 1997-01-29 - Re: Trigger-Words...
## Header Data
From: Martin Janzen \<janzen@idacom.hp.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0308f1092c6f4bd016d8e6baf8830796088258a7a27d9e0d98374b216b70daec<br>
Message ID: \<199701290126.RAA11362@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-29 01:26:25 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 17:26:25 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Martin Janzen <janzen@idacom.hp.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 17:26:25 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Trigger-Words...
Message-ID: <199701290126.RAA11362@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
harka@nycmetro.com writes:
>does anybody know any contact points/Web pages, where I might get
>some information on e-mail filtering via trigger-words? I am
>interested in how this technology specifically works and a
>acollection of trigger-words would be nice too :)
You might start with the Mail Filtering FAQ:
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/mail/filtering-faq/faq.html
It's pretty Unix-specific, covering procmail, Elm filter, and mailagent.
For PC-based mailers, you're probably better off checking the documentation
and/or the web page for the one you're using. Finally, take a look at the
comp.mail.* newsgroups.
Or just use the search engines, throwing in combinations of the above terms...
--
Martin Janzen janzen@idacom.hp.com
Pegasus Systems Group c/o Hewlett-Packard Company, CMD Vancouver
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-29 (Tue, 28 Jan 1997 17:26:25 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Trigger-Words... - _Martin Janzen \<janzen@idacom.hp.com\>_

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# 1997-01-08 - Copyright loophole?
## Header Data
From: azur@netcom.com (Steve Schear)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0343c941aa8b14952557e9e3f8f31eeed0d860e944c4b65316cb694883d4923b<br>
Message ID: \<199701080602.WAA21277@netcom18.netcom.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-08 06:03:11 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 22:03:11 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: azur@netcom.com (Steve Schear)
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 22:03:11 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Copyright loophole?
Message-ID: <199701080602.WAA21277@netcom18.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
While doing research at a law library, I came across what appears to be a
legal loop-hole in the copyright law. It seems a famous author's publisher
had a substantial number of unbound and unsold copies of his works sitting
around. Another publisher purchased them from his publisher, without the
author's knowledge, and printed an anthology which included an index which
was not part of the purchased (copyrighted) items.
In Kipling vs. G.P. Putnam & Sons (1903, CA2 NY) 120 F 631, the 2nd circuit
found that (from 17 USCS § 501) "Publication of an index to accompany
copyrighted volume of author's work although containing words and phrases
found in text, does not constitute infringement." From the original
opinion: "They were also at liberty to make and publish an index contained
in their volumes even though the index, as necessary must, contain words
and phrases found in the text."
Q1: Could this decision (which has stood since 1903) support the creation,
storage and distribution of "standalone" on-line indicies to copyrighted
works without infringement? (I could not find a direct reference to
"fair-use" in the portion of the opinion referencing the index nor a
related ruling, using the 1976 Copyright Act, which overturned the "index'
provision.)
Q2: How much content can an index contain and still not infringe?
Q3: What would be the legal standing of these indicies, or several
unrelated "indexes", if they can jointly (but not separately) be used to
reconstitute the original copyright work by a private citizen? (Anonymous
index posting, especially via a Ross Anderson style Eternity Service, might
"practically" circumvent government enforcement.)
-- Steve
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-08 (Tue, 7 Jan 1997 22:03:11 -0800 (PST)) - Copyright loophole? - _azur@netcom.com (Steve Schear)_

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# 1997-01-08 - Algorithm Identifier for CDMF
## Header Data
From: Robert Hettinga \<rah@shipwright.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 03443724fc8dcd3e972bb32d02e055420788385da349ec202213a5dbcf63dffb<br>
Message ID: \<v03007898aef99c6d0e1d@[139.167.130.248]\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-08 19:02:02 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 11:02:02 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Robert Hettinga <rah@shipwright.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 11:02:02 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Algorithm Identifier for CDMF
Message-ID: <v03007898aef99c6d0e1d@[139.167.130.248]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Grab your ankles, ladies and gents. This won't hurt a bit...
Cheers,
Bob Hettinga
<Wait, isn't that a freight train in the distance?>
--- begin forwarded text
From: Bob Baldwin <baldwin@rsa.com>
To: "'set-dev'" <set-dev@terisa.com>
Subject: Algorithm Identifier for CDMF
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 09:41:08 -0800
Mime-Version: 1.0
Sender: owner-set-dev@terisa.com
Precedence: bulk
The SET protocol needs an algorithm identifier
for a 40 bit variant of des called CDMF for use
with the AcqBackMsg. This note defines the value for
that identifier.
--Bob Baldwin
--------------------------
ALGORITHM IDENTIFIER FOR IBM's CDMF ALGORITHM
INTRODUCTION
The Commercial Data Masking Facility (CDMF) is an
application of DES that weakens the DES key from
56 to 40 bits using a key shortening algorithm
patented by IBM. Licensing information for the CDMF
patent is available from the Director of Licensing,
IBM Corporation, 500 Columbus Avenue, Thornwood, NY 10594.
This note defines the ASN.1 algorithm identifier and algorithm
parameters for IBM's CDMF that has been registered by RSA Data
Security Inc.
RSA Data Security, Inc.'s Open Systems Interconnection (OSI) object
identifier is 1.2.840.113549 (2a, 0x86, 0x48, 0x86, 0xf7, 0x0d in hex),
as registered by the American National Standards Institute (ANSI).
In the following, the prefix "rsadsi" refers to that object identifier.
All object identifiers registered by RSA Data Security begin with this
prefix.
CDMFCBCPad
This is a Cipher Block Chaining mode of operation with padding
of a 40-bit variant of DES. It is defined in:
IBM Journal of Research and Development, "The Commercial Data
Masking Facility (CDMF) Data Privacy Algorithm", Volume 38,
Number 2, March 1994.
Following the ASN.1 style of the "Agreements for Open Systems
Interconnection Protocols: Part 12 OS Security", it is defined by:
ALGORITHM MACRO ::=
BEGIN
TYPE NOTATION ::= "PARAMETER" type
VALUE NOTATION ::= value(VALUE OBJECT IDENTIFIER)
END -- of ALGORITHM
IV8 ::= OCTET STRING (SIZE(8))
CBC8Parameter ::= IV8
CDMFCBCPad ALGORITHM
PARAMETER CBC8Parameter
::= {iso(1) member-body(2) US(840) rsadsi(113549)
encryptionAlgorithm(3) 10}
-- In hex, the CDMFCBCPad algorithm ID is:
-- { 0x2a, 0x86, 0x48, 0x86, 0xf7, 0x0d, 0x03, 0x0A }
The PARAMETER is needed to specify the Initialization Vector,
which need not be kept secret. It is 8 octets long.
This mode should be used to encrypt multiple blocks, where the
full message is available. The random IV prevents codebook
analysis of the start of the chain. The IV may be public.
This mode will propagate a single bit error in one plaintext
block into all succeeding blocks, and will propagate a single bit
error in the ciphertext into a garbled plaintext block on
decryption as well as a single bit error in the next plaintext
block.
The following padding mechanism should be used if the data
to be encrypted is octet aligned, unless the security policy
dictates otherwise:
The input to the CDMF CBC encryption process must be padded to a
multiple of 8 octet, in the following manner. Let n be the
length in octets of the input. Pad the input by appending 8-(n
mod 8) octet to the end of the message, each having the value
8-(n mod 8), the number of octets being added. In hexadecimal,
the possible paddings are: 01, 0202, 030303, 04040404,
0505050505, 060606060606, 07070707070707, and 0808080808080808.
All input is padded with 1 to 8 octets to produce a multiple of 8
octets in length. The padding can be removed unambiguously after
decryption.
Editor's Note - If adding the padding rules would cause
existing implementations to break, this should be registered
as a separate algorithm identifier. Note, however, that
[FIPS 81] specifies its own padding rules for padding binary
data, in the absence of application-defined rules such as
those above; those rules require an indication (which could
be conveyed as an algorithm PARAMETER) of whether the data
has been padded or not.
--- end forwarded text
-----------------
Robert Hettinga (rah@shipwright.com), Philodox,
e$, 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"The cost of anything is the foregone alternative" -- Walter Johnson
The e$ Home Page: http://www.vmeng.com/rah/
FC97: Anguilla, anyone? http://offshore.com.ai/fc97/
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-08 (Wed, 8 Jan 1997 11:02:02 -0800 (PST)) - Algorithm Identifier for CDMF - _Robert Hettinga \<rah@shipwright.com\>_

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layout: default
---
# 1997-01-20 - Re: Dr Vulis's crypto experiment (Re: IMDMP: SOURCE CODE RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENT)
## Header Data
From: Dale Thorn \<dthorn@gte.net\><br>
To: Adam Back \<aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk\><br>
Message Hash: 0350c3027d477b624f7dd823f5f6c7bc80a111c9ca5f92ef9ab49ca0cadca426<br>
Message ID: \<199701200455.UAA00391@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-20 04:55:52 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:55:52 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Dale Thorn <dthorn@gte.net>
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:55:52 -0800 (PST)
To: Adam Back <aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Dr Vulis's crypto experiment (Re: IMDMP: SOURCE CODE RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENT)
Message-ID: <199701200455.UAA00391@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Adam Back wrote:
This was an utterly fascinating post, if y'all don't mind my saying so.
I certainly can't vouch for the details (or the theories), but whether
any of the details are deliberate experiments on Dimitri's part or not,
the totality of what has taken place would make an excellent source
for a post-graduate study. Am I right?
I would suggest, however, if you're looking for a likely candidate for
really advanced social manipulation/experimentation, you should be
looking at the list owner(s), not the gadflys.
There's this silly theory some people have, that once in a while the
little people (the good guys?) win enough points to set the bad guys
back a ways. Not in 20th century Amerika. Read Carl Oglesby's
article "Paranoia As A Way Of Knowing", and think: "Paranoia As A Way
Of Knowing Who We Are."
[much text deleted below]
> It's occured to me recently that Dimitri's posts are not being read
> correctly, it is not the content which is the point, nor the
> superficial lack of crypto relevance.
> I await with interest the last phases of Dimitri's experiment, when
> the cypherpunks list becomes a moderated forum. My suggestions for
> interesting experiments during the moderated phase are:
> I hope Dimitri's selfless efforts in furthering understanding of DoS
> attacks on mailing lists is properly acknowledged when he publishes
> his findings on completion of his experiments. I also hope that
> Dimitri will document his recommendations for mailing list
> configuration and management in light of his experiments.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-20 (Sun, 19 Jan 1997 20:55:52 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Dr Vulis's crypto experiment (Re: IMDMP: SOURCE CODE RELEASE ANNOUNCEMENT) - _Dale Thorn \<dthorn@gte.net\>_

60
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-26 - Re: overview.htm (fwd)
## Header Data
From: Dale Thorn \<dthorn@gte.net\><br>
To: Jim Choate \<ravage@einstein.ssz.com\><br>
Message Hash: 03561f100c4c762916acc9c24a750fef94b4a8a777d76b38c7e4be6c3b0c8f2b<br>
Message ID: \<199701260340.TAA08079@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-26 03:40:54 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:40:54 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Dale Thorn <dthorn@gte.net>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:40:54 -0800 (PST)
To: Jim Choate <ravage@einstein.ssz.com>
Subject: Re: overview.htm (fwd)
Message-ID: <199701260340.TAA08079@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Jim Choate wrote:
> Forwarded message:
> > Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 10:31:49 -0800
> > From: Dale Thorn <dthorn@gte.net>
> > Subject: Re: overview.htm
> > Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
> > > Jim Choate <ravage@einstein.ssz.com> writes:
[snip]
> WOAH Bessie!
> I had nothing to do with this exchange, and definitely didn't write ANY of
> the above. Please get me out of there and keep me out of it. I am more than
> able to speak for myself thank you.
I don't know what could have happened. I use the Netscape email editor
in stupid mode, i.e., I just press the buttons, I don't have any idea
how it works. Sorry!
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-26 (Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:40:54 -0800 (PST)) - Re: overview.htm (fwd) - _Dale Thorn \<dthorn@gte.net\>_

42
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-17 - No Subject
## Header Data
From: "T. O'Brien" \<tobrien@comet.net\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 037fe0e6c48da78b2c76fa0e55b2266e28b6edb4ecc59847c275f6e752cf0981<br>
Message ID: \<32DF143F.37B2@comet.net\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-17 20:58:33 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:58:33 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: "T. O'Brien" <tobrien@comet.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:58:33 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <32DF143F.37B2@comet.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Unsubcribe
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-17 (Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:58:33 -0800 (PST)) - No Subject - _"T. O'Brien" \<tobrien@comet.net\>_

48
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-03 - [IMPORTANT] One-time pads
## Header Data
From: nobody@zifi.genetics.utah.edu (Anonymous)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 03a2bf4fdf283e302bb081c73d33f6afdc712d2058a525b6f901e8572670e5bc<br>
Message ID: \<199701030706.AAA03362@zifi.genetics.utah.edu\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-03 07:06:36 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 23:06:36 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: nobody@zifi.genetics.utah.edu (Anonymous)
Date: Thu, 2 Jan 1997 23:06:36 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: [IMPORTANT] One-time pads
Message-ID: <199701030706.AAA03362@zifi.genetics.utah.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Timmy Maya styles his facial hair to look more like pubic hair.
_
>@) Timmy Maya
(V(_
^^\<
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-03 (Thu, 2 Jan 1997 23:06:36 -0800 (PST)) - [IMPORTANT] One-time pads - _nobody@zifi.genetics.utah.edu (Anonymous)_

66
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layout: default
---
# 1997-01-10 - Re: [IDEA] Cypherpunks Super Computer (was Re: The Upcoming DES Challenge)
## Header Data
From: "Frank O'Dwyer" \<fod@brd.ie\><br>
To: Hal Finney \<hal@rain.org\><br>
Message Hash: 03b692e579b019213c0b44db66f184cc8b988f125bb6441fd0fa803251c3b671<br>
Message ID: \<199701100041.AAA11442@brd.ie\><br>
Reply To: \<199701092015.MAA00707@crypt.hfinney.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-10 01:24:13 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 17:24:13 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: "Frank O'Dwyer" <fod@brd.ie>
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 17:24:13 -0800 (PST)
To: Hal Finney <hal@rain.org>
Subject: Re: [IDEA] Cypherpunks Super Computer (was Re: The Upcoming DES Challenge)
In-Reply-To: <199701092015.MAA00707@crypt.hfinney.com>
Message-ID: <199701100041.AAA11442@brd.ie>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
[...]
> I suspect that Java, when it gets its security API, may be a good
> candidate for this kind of system. It's already got high level socket
> I/O, and with a bignum package and some basic crypto primitives like
> one way functions, you could do a lot with it. You still have the
> problem of trading off safety for utility, though.
I like Java too, however it is getting to be a systems programming
language. In my experience people are irrationally scared of it, too
(while happily tapping their secrets into MS-word, of course :-)
What I have in mind is more obviously restricted, and more like a
programmable calculator (with bignums and buttons marked "DES") - no
sockets, no files, no system calls, etc. Just number-crunching.
I take the point about Safe-TCL, but there must be some way of doing
this in a way that enough people think it's safe to run.
Cheers,
Frank O'Dwyer.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-09 (Thu, 9 Jan 1997 12:19:59 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: [IDEA] Cypherpunks Super Computer (was Re: The Upcoming DES Challenge)](/archive/1997/01/644075f6f378a8ac8c5c41f35a58dc88f4bba5b3423bafebf477430bc65b35d7) - _Hal Finney \<hal@rain.org\>_
+ 1997-01-10 (Thu, 9 Jan 1997 17:24:13 -0800 (PST)) - Re: [IDEA] Cypherpunks Super Computer (was Re: The Upcoming DES Challenge) - _"Frank O'Dwyer" \<fod@brd.ie\>_

58
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-19 - Re: Monitoring the monitors [Was: Gilmore and Sandfart suck big dicks]
## Header Data
From: Dave Hayes \<dave@kachina.jetcafe.org\><br>
To: freedom-knights@jetcafe.org<br>
Message Hash: 040aca4a058bc980a7319a0317ecd6c90547802c7b24fed02be68a4f1fe50b9a<br>
Message ID: \<199701192151.NAA11643@kachina.jetcafe.org\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-19 21:51:23 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:51:23 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Dave Hayes <dave@kachina.jetcafe.org>
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:51:23 -0800 (PST)
To: freedom-knights@jetcafe.org
Subject: Re: Monitoring the monitors [Was: Gilmore and Sandfart suck big dicks]
Message-ID: <199701192151.NAA11643@kachina.jetcafe.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
> In other words, can I separate the censored email without having to
> have two accounts?
You can write a program to read both the censored and uncensored
email, and do a diff. You wouldn't have to see it, and it could be
done so that a "fake" address subscribes to the censored list.
Maybe I should offer this as a service to the uncensored list? ;-)
------
Dave Hayes - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org
Freedom Knight of Usenet - http://www.jetcafe.org/~dave/usenet
None should say "I can trust" or "I cannot trust" until they are the master
of the option of trusting or not trusting.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-19 (Sun, 19 Jan 1997 13:51:23 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Monitoring the monitors [Was: Gilmore and Sandfart suck big dicks] - _Dave Hayes \<dave@kachina.jetcafe.org\>_

72
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-27 - Re: overview.htm (fwd)
## Header Data
From: Dale Thorn \<dthorn@gte.net\><br>
To: Nurdane Oksas \<oksas@asimov.montclair.edu\><br>
Message Hash: 04460e8d7f6dd2c4579ceda738f182f0772518303fca5ecafa4a39ff205e947e<br>
Message ID: \<32EC6D24.2FD4@gte.net\><br>
Reply To: \<Pine.SOL.3.93.970126234608.26931C-100000@pegasus.montclair.edu\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-27 09:13:04 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 01:13:04 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Dale Thorn <dthorn@gte.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 01:13:04 -0800 (PST)
To: Nurdane Oksas <oksas@asimov.montclair.edu>
Subject: Re: overview.htm (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.93.970126234608.26931C-100000@pegasus.montclair.edu>
Message-ID: <32EC6D24.2FD4@gte.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Nurdane Oksas wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Jan 1997, Igor Chudov @ home wrote:
> > Nurdane Oksas wrote:
> > > California is know for very beautiful girls ...
> > wrong.
> well, seems D. Thorn agrees with the song: 'california girls'
Depends on where you go, and what time of year. So. Cal. is no doubt
a revolving door for the girl markets, especially on the beach board-
walks, or on San Vicente where a lot of joggers run.
Anywhere else and it's no different from Cleveland or Pittsburgh.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-26 (Sun, 26 Jan 1997 15:27:03 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: overview.htm (fwd)](/archive/1997/01/b4b3352054c28a2d767f361a4cd175c9547ff312a09a263d253b8023527cb0cb) - _Nurdane Oksas \<oksas@asimov.montclair.edu\>_
+ 1997-01-27 (Sun, 26 Jan 1997 16:47:07 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: overview.htm (fwd)](/archive/1997/01/cf5b852b9f9531751236f4245df3d1cdb5e78bb6060d67ef4002a3ec79b3705e) - _ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)_
+ 1997-01-27 (Sun, 26 Jan 1997 17:31:08 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: overview.htm (fwd)](/archive/1997/01/52f084a7676a91942b209d3c5ee985e73aa1e996da756173c8c058f92e99c71e) - _Nurdane Oksas \<oksas@asimov.montclair.edu\>_
+ 1997-01-27 (Sun, 26 Jan 1997 18:34:53 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: overview.htm (fwd)](/archive/1997/01/be704ae6aa587d9a9073bc7d20573dd29a3009925164264dc7090d4693a858b3) - _Dale Thorn \<dthorn@gte.net\>_
+ 1997-01-27 (Sun, 26 Jan 1997 18:59:11 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: overview.htm (fwd)](/archive/1997/01/1f909e4de6adeff327e537ba8c3e1b612735bcea178b2a30c6792bc158bc2cd4) - _Nurdane Oksas \<oksas@asimov.montclair.edu\>_
+ 1997-01-27 (Sun, 26 Jan 1997 19:23:03 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: overview.htm (fwd)](/archive/1997/01/40af890d4c611cda5d64770226af5bafa8e43c1d286dfc777b4d78b4daef9be2) - _ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)_
+ 1997-01-27 (Sun, 26 Jan 1997 20:54:04 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: overview.htm (fwd)](/archive/1997/01/391c178248cc011dd283d29cbca1a5c6c792e095e7dfd4c8037efd360accb98e) - _Nurdane Oksas \<oksas@asimov.montclair.edu\>_
+ 1997-01-27 (Mon, 27 Jan 1997 01:13:04 -0800 (PST)) - Re: overview.htm (fwd) - _Dale Thorn \<dthorn@gte.net\>_
+ 1997-01-28 (Mon, 27 Jan 1997 16:13:37 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: overview.htm (fwd)](/archive/1997/01/383c8ca768509247892812b5c9c7387c283ab539796dd109904e29df46056b67) - _Nurdane Oksas \<oksas@asimov.montclair.edu\>_
+ 1997-01-28 (Mon, 27 Jan 1997 23:25:49 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: overview.htm (fwd)](/archive/1997/01/5b5d9a45033420c3377c65e33c5a513f6f5a9d18294bcd1940958f873cf84f7e) - _Dale Thorn \<dthorn@gte.net\>_
+ 1997-01-28 (Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:14:09 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: overview.htm (fwd)](/archive/1997/01/272c76cace98a8b709e1e49cf465826198f8840ff52457f04733dd154a3d4042) - _OKSAS \<oksas@asimov.montclair.edu\>_
+ 1997-01-29 (Tue, 28 Jan 1997 22:44:16 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: overview.htm (fwd)](/archive/1997/01/a710549bb5337c7fb3540fb74e3695fac97bad9901f02b7a521379d0de6dd0f5) - _Dale Thorn \<dthorn@gte.net\>_
+ 1997-01-29 (Tue, 28 Jan 1997 22:59:02 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: overview.htm (fwd)](/archive/1997/01/a3ed8682eabdbac4ca23de8ae69bd5d27f0ecf33cbe74b92e00997d2fb1f2352) - _ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)_
+ 1997-01-29 (Tue, 28 Jan 1997 23:49:19 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: overview.htm (fwd)](/archive/1997/01/b86e96d8b3e46a56330a36ca69782d587095af06c404f18505f6eeaae93595da) - _Dale Thorn \<dthorn@gte.net\>_
+ 1997-01-29 (Wed, 29 Jan 1997 00:11:16 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: overview.htm (fwd)](/archive/1997/01/c86bc98d66d40138138adf1b575efbe4277792547981ab37c7dbf173e3da4311) - _ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)_

59
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-21 - Re: Airport security [no such thing]
## Header Data
From: drose@AZStarNet.com<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0446f697cf330a9cd645f7167445d81830c28b0a6ae8b858079a40c899102f57<br>
Message ID: \<199701210410.UAA28001@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-21 04:10:52 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 20:10:52 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: drose@AZStarNet.com
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 20:10:52 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Airport security [no such thing]
Message-ID: <199701210410.UAA28001@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Alan Bostick wrote:
[...]
>She presented the gate agent with *four* tickets and *four* IDs. "Where
>are these other people?" the agent asked. "They're parking the car,"
>said the traveler. The agent gave her all four boarding passes; and my
>companion and I were bumped to the third boarding group.
>
>The woman in front of us was white and middle-class-looking, traveling
>with what appeared to be her family. One wonders what would have
>happened were she a swarthy man wearing robes and a burnoose. Or if she
>were just wearing shabby clothes.
My guess is that you and your companion would have been further discommoded,
with the possible concomitant saving of your lives.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-21 (Mon, 20 Jan 1997 20:10:52 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Airport security [no such thing] - _drose@AZStarNet.com_

91
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-08 - RE: Why are 1024 bit keys the limit right now?
## Header Data
From: "James A. Tunnicliffe" \<Tunny@inference.com\><br>
To: "'AaronH4321@aol.com\><br>
Message Hash: 045073d610a937ca33e99222a0b475a35ab891113b0e2e4746d426985a4d88bc<br>
Message ID: \<c=US%a=_%p=Inference%l=LANDRU-970108155742Z-8231@landru.novato.inference2.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-08 16:00:51 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 08:00:51 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: "James A. Tunnicliffe" <Tunny@inference.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 08:00:51 -0800 (PST)
To: "'AaronH4321@aol.com>
Subject: RE: Why are 1024 bit keys the limit right now?
Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=Inference%l=LANDRU-970108155742Z-8231@landru.novato.inference2.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
AaronH4321@aol.com writes:
> I am just starting at this. I know that part of RSA/PGP's strength
> comes from the size key you choose. What prevents someone from
> writting a 2048 bit key? Is it because computers can't handle it? Is
> 1024 top of the prime number size right now? Am I way off track?
In just about every way possible... :-)
The RSA algorithm can use keys of arbitrary length.
All current versions of PGP allow key sizes up to 2048* bits. (When
asked for the size of the key to generate, it allows you to select 512,
768, 1024, OR TO *TYPE IN THE NUMBER OF BITS DESIRED*.) There are older,
partially incompatible versions that allow even larger keys, though
there is little reason to go higher. Beyond something like 3100 bits, it
is surmised that the 128-bit IDEA session key is easier to attack.
As for prime numbers, no, 1024 bits isn't even close to the largest
found (there are of course an infinite number of primes). The latest
discovery was of a Mersenne prime, the 35th such found. It was 1,398,269
bits long (all 1's, of course).
Tunny
* OK, there is a minor bug in 2.6.2 that in some cases limits keys to
"only" 2047 bits -- the difference is utterly insignificant in terms of
security. This message is signed by such a 2047-bit key.
======================================================================
James A. Tunnicliffe | WWWeb: http://www.inference.com/~tunny
Inference Corporation | PGP Fingerprint: CA 23 E2 F3 AC 2D 0C 77
tunny@Inference.com | 36 07 D9 33 3D 32 53 9C
======================================================================
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 4.0 Business Edition
Comment: which I won in the PGP raffle at Cypherpunks 12/96...
iQEVAgUBMtPCuvAmQsmyRPddAQHQHwf+NcZ54woujQVBRRmmyH3CayYmCial2sLn
py0RvaXP9UGhY+vZU2HgtzaCor32JnrC67LsHH/2XLIEqjpsNzor7YwCtllsl55M
1lo4dkXfjg/jW0ijLTEbbEealRm1LziZVjIrTNsibq1GZ0UdwTb8nPens2iuHZBB
QJZTBkpi0yD8xnWZqvSBwjsdavJUUOy1xU4PgNE4Nr/xbWPA0OwMGOm1MSHFXxHL
xOYJvLR9905mSxh+kNdcf3SpT5JRuBjH6MQmG8GjKRGc8KoXbfUkCiXeSXlygaGA
q2/z2lO4E9eTZvlrsQN1sw8uIoKTnz3YPw9nWjXTeLWx9J7WbeGPSA==
=RzVt
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-08 (Wed, 8 Jan 1997 08:00:51 -0800 (PST)) - RE: Why are 1024 bit keys the limit right now? - _"James A. Tunnicliffe" \<Tunny@inference.com\>_
+ 1997-01-08 (Wed, 8 Jan 1997 12:59:50 -0800 (PST)) - [RE: Why are 1024 bit keys the limit right now?](/archive/1997/01/f92cf0fb1ab3fa14812e647da057c4c12f68a362d561c28d5bd1455ac45b35df) - _"Mark M." \<markm@voicenet.com\>_
+ 1997-01-08 (Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:17:45 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: Why are 1024 bit keys the limit right now?](/archive/1997/01/833c378bbafcbf1004bc6bf4af36fed9cbcbe79facb3e68ca0157bea064f4b3c) - _Derek Atkins \<warlord@MIT.EDU\>_
+ 1997-01-10 (Thu, 9 Jan 1997 21:35:33 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: Why are 1024 bit keys the limit right now?](/archive/1997/01/ee90f8932ed388f35307ca91d9c1df7fbd21bcad08abf39ae05e2000abf9d1a5) - _Jason Burrell \<jburrell@crl.crl.com\>_

64
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layout: default
---
# 1997-01-06 - No Subject
## Header Data
From: nobody@replay.com (Anonymous)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0469d81e891ade792d6d7bdd077707fd522223741a4ab3b115d37a83649c7bb0<br>
Message ID: \<199701061835.TAA00200@basement.replay.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-06 18:43:33 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 10:43:33 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: nobody@replay.com (Anonymous)
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 10:43:33 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: No Subject
Message-ID: <199701061835.TAA00200@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Toto wrote:
> > (If you think our list is bad, you ought to see lists which are completely
> > dominated by one-line witticisms and inside jokes....)
>
> Or 10,000 messages saying only, "Merry Christmas", followed a few days
> later by another 10,000 messages saying, "Happy New Year".
> Anyone who needs 'proof' that I am speaking the truth, here, (and who
> has a 10Gb hard drive), can just send me their email address, and I
> would be glad to forward them.
Thanks for your kind offer. Please send the material to:
dlv@bwalk.dm.com
(Better send several copies of each message to make sure none get
lost.) I can also get mail at:
aga@dhp.com
Might as well send to both accounts.
Thanks again!
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-06 (Mon, 6 Jan 1997 10:43:33 -0800 (PST)) - No Subject - _nobody@replay.com (Anonymous)_

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# 1997-01-26 - Fan mail from Gilmore, Sandfart, and friends
## Header Data
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 048a956d98ce50a4fa6736e956e4f2326670b42294fdab0d63478baca1a07985<br>
Message ID: \<BD741D38w165w@bwalk.dm.com\><br>
Reply To: \<3.0.32.19970124203349.006a229c@pop.netaddress.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-26 03:20:39 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:20:39 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:20:39 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Fan mail from Gilmore, Sandfart, and friends
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970124203349.006a229c@pop.netaddress.com>
Message-ID: <BD741D38w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
>From iverson@usa.net Sat Jan 25 12:51:37 1997
>Received: by bwalk.dm.com (1.65/waf)
> via UUCP; Sat, 25 Jan 97 13:06:18 EST
> for dlv
>Received: (qmail 17565 invoked by uid 0); 25 Jan 1997 17:47:20 -0000
>Received: from nyc-ny15-18.ix.netcom.com (205.186.166.50) by netaddress.usa.net via mtad (2.0) on Sat Jan 25 10:47:15 1997
>Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970124203349.006a229c@pop.netaddress.com>
>X-Sender: iverson@pop.netaddress.com (Unverified)
>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32)
>Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:46:01 -0500
>To: "Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM" <dlv@bwalk.dm.com>
>From: Casey Iverson <iverson@usa.net>
>Subject: Re: No Dimitri??
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>At 10:33 PM 1/23/97 EST, you wrote:
>>"William H. Geiger III" <whgiii@amaranth.com> writes:
>>
>>> I have noticed that there has not been any post from Dimitri in a couple of
>>> days.
>>>
>>> I am assuming that this means that the list moderation has now started?
>>
>>Yes - anything I say is junked irrespective of content.
>
>Devoid of content you piece of Russian Shit
>
>You have not completed the NetAddress survey. Please login to http://netaddress.usa.net/ to start using NetAddress
>
So much shit in NYC...
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-26 (Sat, 25 Jan 1997 19:20:39 -0800 (PST)) - Fan mail from Gilmore, Sandfart, and friends - _dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)_

71
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# 1997-01-28 - Re: OTP security
## Header Data
From: paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk<br>
To: Rick Osborne \<osborne@gateway.grumman.com\><br>
Message Hash: 04935f6603b46bf07a9d377a469c7af956106032420eda2e35bda36c6dcd05ea<br>
Message ID: \<199701280102.RAA11550@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-28 01:02:30 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 17:02:30 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 17:02:30 -0800 (PST)
To: Rick Osborne <osborne@gateway.grumman.com>
Subject: Re: OTP security
Message-ID: <199701280102.RAA11550@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
> I was thinking about the thread we had a week or so ago about OTPs. Say
> I'm going to burn a CD of what I think are cryptographically random bits,
> but somehow I end up with part of my stream being predictable (say every
> 16th bit). What does this do to the security of my CD?
Depends on how that 16th bit is related to the other bits and whether
these predictable bits give any information about the other bits on
the disk.
If we assume all the other bits are true random and that the 16th
bits are predictable only in that they can be predicted left and
right but do not depend upon the other bits not in positions 16, 32,
48, 16n etc... we can just discard them and use the rest obtaining
perfect security. We can even use all the bits and all we lose is one
bit every two bytes and therefore if we are calling the bytes ASCII
and say adding mod 13 we only have "imperfect" security on every 2nd
character where there are 2^7 eg. 128 possible characters.
Suprisingly this yields perfect security as there are still a number of
possible pads which lead to reasonable and plausible decryptions.
Datacomms Technologies web authoring and data security
Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk
Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org
Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/
Email for PGP public key, ID: 5BBFAEB1
"Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-28 (Mon, 27 Jan 1997 17:02:30 -0800 (PST)) - Re: OTP security - _paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk_

67
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---
# 1997-01-11 - Re: Some People Just Never Learn
## Header Data
From: Black Unicorn \<unicorn@schloss.li\><br>
To: Evil se7en \<se7en@dis.org\><br>
Message Hash: 0498838063eef8f822a79f94d60989119b13c347a16ee6257d57235f2dbd9f76<br>
Message ID: \<Pine.SUN.3.94.970111155242.5104B-100000@polaris\><br>
Reply To: \<Pine.BSI.3.91.970111031545.8640A-100000@kizmiaz.dis.org\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-11 20:57:04 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 12:57:04 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Black Unicorn <unicorn@schloss.li>
Date: Sat, 11 Jan 1997 12:57:04 -0800 (PST)
To: Evil se7en <se7en@dis.org>
Subject: Re: Some People Just Never Learn
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.970111031545.8640A-100000@kizmiaz.dis.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.94.970111155242.5104B-100000@polaris>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
On Sat, 11 Jan 1997, Evil se7en wrote:
> So here's to you Gambit...This ought to keep you distracted long enough! Now
> maybe I can go back to my reading list and fade back into obscurity.
>
> XOXOXO!
>
> se7en
> º Address:
> º SONOMA County Status: º
Others at primary address:
> º MARLENE AGNEW º
Oh uh, watch it. He lives with Spiro's sister!
--
Forward complaints to : European Association of Envelope Manufactures
Finger for Public Key Gutenbergstrasse 21;Postfach;CH-3001;Bern
Vote Monarchist Switzerland
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-11 (Sat, 11 Jan 1997 03:30:09 -0800 (PST)) - [Some People Just Never Learn](/archive/1997/01/25af66a6278168897e7ed56323088370c749c3f39318d36ebce9e2ef4edd2515) - _Evil se7en \<se7en@dis.org\>_
+ 1997-01-11 (Sat, 11 Jan 1997 12:57:04 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Some People Just Never Learn - _Black Unicorn \<unicorn@schloss.li\>_

60
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# 1997-01-09 - IBM Key Recovery Propaganda on United Airlines
## Header Data
From: dimple@pacific.net.sg<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 04a0162205a0baaf4f9e1ce7d74d13b5f131e2f23254c898d52c140385d1ce58<br>
Message ID: \<199701090849.QAA17079@darwin.pacific.net.sg\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-09 08:49:12 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 00:49:12 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: dimple@pacific.net.sg
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 00:49:12 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: IBM Key Recovery Propaganda on United Airlines
Message-ID: <199701090849.QAA17079@darwin.pacific.net.sg>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
The commercials between the movie and news show on the airline include an
IBM spot on their new Key Recovery software. Sigh.
The explanations they gave were mixed; one person was talking about
making sure that if you lose the key that people with a legitimate need
to access the material can do it. The other example they gave, with
pictures, was along the lines of
"Suppose you're going on vacation and you want to leave a key with
a neighbor to feed the dog. A safe way to do it would be to put your house
key in a lockbox that needs several keys to open it, and give those keys
to people you trust." Yeah, right - cops can get in, but Dog's gonna get
pretty hungry....
# Thanks; Bill
# Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts@ix.netcom.com
# You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp
# (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-09 (Thu, 9 Jan 1997 00:49:12 -0800 (PST)) - IBM Key Recovery Propaganda on United Airlines - _dimple@pacific.net.sg_

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# 1997-01-23 - Re: P.S. David Kahn's editorial today
## Header Data
From: Adam Shostack \<adam@homeport.org\><br>
To: Carl Ellison \<cme@cybercash.com\><br>
Message Hash: 04b2296c5a75dd056d80cb8c10ce1570f2501251932986f32c6d1179b6989870<br>
Message ID: \<199701231429.GAA15847@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-23 14:29:49 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 06:29:49 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Adam Shostack <adam@homeport.org>
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 06:29:49 -0800 (PST)
To: Carl Ellison <cme@cybercash.com>
Subject: Re: P.S. David Kahn's editorial today
Message-ID: <199701231429.GAA15847@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Carl Ellison wrote:
| I just sent the following P.S. to newsday.com
| ----------------------
|
| If I use an AT&T Clipper-style cellular phone, as David suggested, and I
| call you on a normal wired phone, we can't encrypt the conversation and it
| is vulnerable to interception. The protection works *only* if both parties
| have encrypting phones while interoperate.
Its worth thinking about multiple layers of protection for a
datastream. The end to end encryption issue is seperate from the
issue of mobile to base encryption (and mobile to base authentication,
for that matter.) Compute power is getting cheap enough that doing
both seems roughly feasable to me.
Multiple protective layers is also nice in an environment
where theres policy checking going on, ie, a firewall. SSL only gets
plugged through a firewall because it can't be partially unwrapped. I
can't proxy in any meaningful sense.
Adam
--
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
-Hume
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-23 (Thu, 23 Jan 1997 06:29:49 -0800 (PST)) - Re: P.S. David Kahn's editorial today - _Adam Shostack \<adam@homeport.org\>_

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# 1997-01-17 - Re: Key Revokation Scheme
## Header Data
From: Bill Stewart \<stewarts@ix.netcom.com\><br>
To: harka@nycmetro.com<br>
Message Hash: 04bdcf018ec9a241b37bdcc72a0d6b3f043da5482c86e01a308514a2e7dd4ccd<br>
Message ID: \<3.0.1.32.19970117120914.00639400@popd.ix.netcom.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-17 20:12:10 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:12:10 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Bill Stewart <stewarts@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:12:10 -0800 (PST)
To: harka@nycmetro.com
Subject: Re: Key Revokation Scheme
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970117120914.00639400@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 11:32 PM 1/14/97 -0500, harka@nycmetro.com wrote:
>I started thinking about the issue, how to set up a system to have
>somebody else revoke your key for you, if you don't have the means
>to do so yourself.
>The possible case I had in mind was, what if you're maybe a
>dissident, you get arrested and your apartment (incl. disks/keys)
>gets raided. You don't have any means to revoke the key yourself,
>don't even have e-mail in general, and with the "one phone call",
[.... method deleted .... lawyer, alice, bob, ... ]
Too complex for what you're really doing. Give your lawyer a floppy
with the key revocation certificate and a yellow sticky about how
to call Alice or Bob for help if your lawyer's not computer-literate
enough to follow the README file. If you're paranoid about the cops
getting your unindicted co-conspirators' names, use PGP Inc.
or some computer consultant instead of Alice and Bob and have your
lawyer pay their per-hour rate. On your One Phone Call,
tell him to get the floppy out of the sealed envelope in his safe
and use it.
Key revocation certificates don't leak your private keys,
so the only risk if the Bad Guys get a copy is denial of service,
including the pain of rebuilding all your connections, etc.;
it doesn't leak your communications or allow them to forge mail.
# Thanks; Bill
# Bill Stewart, +1-415-442-2215 stewarts@ix.netcom.com
# You can get PGP outside the US at ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/crypto/pgp
# (If this is a mailing list, please Cc: me on replies. Thanks.)
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-17 (Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:12:10 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Key Revokation Scheme - _Bill Stewart \<stewarts@ix.netcom.com\>_
+ 1997-01-18 (Fri, 17 Jan 1997 16:35:12 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: Key Revokation Scheme](/archive/1997/01/1264b3971bdf8a30408b0b47a5f5f245901af8976986f2ceeb29372aff843637) - _Rich Graves \<rcgraves@disposable.com\>_

60
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layout: default
---
# 1997-01-20 - Re: a comment of Vulis's
## Header Data
From: Sean Roach \<roach_s@alph.swosu.edu\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 04c33ae967b01fd1e16da9c44a448d261c22d18e9684f58efbe9647c74a7259d<br>
Message ID: \<199701202144.NAA19211@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-20 21:44:13 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:44:13 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Sean Roach <roach_s@alph.swosu.edu>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:44:13 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: a comment of Vulis's
Message-ID: <199701202144.NAA19211@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Dr Vulis made a comment that there was the threat of persons in favor of the
moderator being able to get away with slander while those victims being
unable to respond. I assume that the moderator will refrain from such
action, but if something were actually cut, I could get it through anyway.
At least until majordomo is secured against such intrusion.
The list won't be truly secure until no one can request the subscription list.
If I felt that I needed to get my message past the moderator, I would just
request the complete listing of cypherpunks subscribers, copy that into the
Bcc: field of eudora, and forge an address. Now my message would get
through, my computer would probably be tied up for an hour or so
distributing my statement, but my message would get through.
The security necessary to counteract this would be to either make the
subscription list unavailable, or delete the actual addresses from the list.
For instance Sean Roach <roach_s@alph.swosu.edu> would become Sean Roach.
Now people could still see who was on the list, but couldn't use it to
negate the established distribution system.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-20 (Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:44:13 -0800 (PST)) - Re: a comment of Vulis's - _Sean Roach \<roach_s@alph.swosu.edu\>_

284
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# 1997-01-25 - Re: Re: A Remarkable Income Opportunity!!
## Header Data
From: "Sid Westcott" \<sales@quantcom.com\><br>
To: "cypherpunks@toad.com\><br>
Message Hash: 04e15c29208d9c0ac77ab4ca592c84c802bc9d1e2d2c8e4fccc468b10aaa0970<br>
Message ID: \<19293503002867@quantcom.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-25 19:28:47 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 11:28:47 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: "Sid Westcott" <sales@quantcom.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 11:28:47 -0800 (PST)
To: "cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Re: Re: A Remarkable Income Opportunity!!
Message-ID: <19293503002867@quantcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Enclosed is the information you requested from Quantum Communications
regarding bulk Email advertising services:
Contact Info:
Quantum Communications
6 Laurel Lane Stratham, NH 03885
603-772-4096
603-772-7297 fax
staff@quantcom.com (general email)
sales@quantcom.com(sales)
cusserv@quantcom.com (customer service)
http://www.quantcom.com
Quantum Communications
Proudly presents:
BULK E-MAIL ADVERTISING SERVICE!
Would you like to offer YOUR product or service to potential
customers via E-mail?
Consider the advantages of sending your marketing letter ALONE or
Co-op to MILLIONS of persons directly via E-mail:
+ NO sharing of space in a cluttered publication
+ NO being buried amidst 100 other postcards in a card deck
+ NO wondering if your prospects will see/read your offer
+ NO having to fight for your prospect's attention
+ NO price-shopping, having your offering compared to others nearby it
+ EXTREMELY COST EFFECTIVE - as low as .009 cents per letter!!
+ Your piece/letter goes out ALONE or Co-op, depending on YOUR needs and
budget
+ Everyone reads their Email!
+ NO need to wait for a publication date! We mail according to YOUR timetable, and all mail
reaches the target within 1 day!
Bulk Email is the perfect way to reach new prospects! Our
state-of-the-art servers and proprietary software allow us to
send your offering to MILLIONS of fresh prospects. All names on our
list have been sent a test letter, enabling us to delete
undeliverables and persons who do not wish to receive unsolicited
Email advertisements. Therefore, all the prospects we send YOUR
offering to are responsive, quality prospects! As part of our standard
service package, we also provide the following:
+ An autoresponder,which allows a prospect to simply click reply and instantly receive a
complete package of detailed further information via Email from your
company (up to 20 pages in length!)
+ A unique Email address to which inquiries for your offering are forwarded, allowing you to build up
your own database of hot prospects.
+ Complete design/copy assistance based on your goals and objectives
We offer a service package designed to fit every need and budget!
Choose either General Bulk (your letter sent ALONE),
Co-op Bulk (your ad sent with others),
or Targeted Bulk (custom-built lists to YOUR specs).
Consider the benefits of using Quantum Communications for sending your bulk
email advertising:
* Highest quality list of hot prospects!
* Largest database (over 5 million, mostly online service members, NOT
newsgroup posters)!
* Lowest rates in the industry!
* FREE features included such as autoresponders, email forwarding, and copy design
assistance!
* No-Nonsense response rate guarantee!
* 100% approved FINANCING. No one turned down!
* Top-notch customer service. The best in the industry, as our references will confirm!
* Targeted lists available, custom built for YOUR project!
Rate Card:
___________________________________________________
Bulk Email Advertising Service
Stand Alone Ad, up to 40 lines of text:
$299 per 100,000, in even lots of 100,000
____________________________________________________
Co-Op Bulk Email Advertising Service
THE "MEGA-MAILER"
Sent to our full database of 5 million hot prospects!
Sent with other ads,
up to 5 lines of text: $599
6-10 lines of text: $849
lines are 70 characters (spaces count) long
number of pieces 5 MILLION
_____________________________________________________
Targeted Bulk Email
Stand Alone Ad, up to 40 lines of text:
under 10,000 9.0 cents per piece
10,000 to 25,000 8.5 cents per piece
25,000 to 50,000 8 cents per piece
over 50,000 7.5 cents per piece
*Contact us with areas to target and we will quote
you a price.
______________________________________________________
PAYMENT TERMS:
10 % Prepay Discount for 100% pre-pay OR
FINANCING- NO Credit check. ALL APPROVED!
50% down, balance broken up into 2 equal monthly installments.
EFT only ( drawn on US bank account ) for financing.
_____________________________________________________
No-Nonsense Response Rate Guarantee:
There are many scams alive on the Internet.
Although the Net represents the greatest opportunity for a business to
expand and grow that has ever existed, dozens of "snake-oil" purveyers
prey on such businesspeople daily.
Bulk Email Advertising is, in effect, the grass-roots basis at the
foundation of all Net
advertising.
It is effective, economical, fast, relatively inexpensive
(in comparison with other media, sometimes almost ridiculously so); in
short - it works! The only glitch with this new advertising media is
the con artists, as we have mentioned.
Quantum Communications is committed
to providing a quality service to advertisers at a reasonable price.
No, we do not offer to supposedly send out a billion email ads for
$39. No legitimate company can afford to promise that AND actually do
it. Unfortunately, by the time most advertisers find that out, they
have lost their money. We believe, instead, in guaranteeing our
responses at a minimum level so each and every advertiser can rest
assured that their money is well spent. We guarantee the following
minimum responses to your advertising piece. If the responses do not
reach the minimum amount, we will continue to include your piece in
our co-op (if it was a co-op), or we will continue to mail the piece
by itself, in sufficient amounts until the minimum responses are
reached. These replies are only the POSITIVE responses and inquiries.
Flames or negative replies, etc. are filtered by us, and you never see
them! (they of course are NOT counted towards your minimum response
guarantee).
Minimum Responses:
General Bulk Email: 100 replies per 200k pieces sent
"MEGA-MAILER" Co-Op Bulk Email: 200 replies
Targeted Bulk Email: 150 replies per 5,000 pieces sent (3.%!)
As you will notice, this fixes the MAXIMUM cost PER REPLY at $2-3.
Knowing how much each reply will cost you AT THE MOST allows you to
plan your marketing budget and plan for success!
This also causes us to take extra care when helping to examine your ad
copy and suggest any revisions. Professional ad copy design is
available for a surcharge of $80 per hour.
We have a stake in making sure you succeed! We
have many references who will vouch for our resolve and character as a
company. Please feel free to call and speak with them. Also, feel free
to either email us ( staff@quantcom.com) or call our offices at (603)
772-4096 and speak with us at any time Mon-Fri, 9AM to 7PM EST
PAYMENT FOR SERVICES:
We accept personal and business checks and money orders. We DO NOT
accept credit cards at this time. If you would like to utilize your
credit card, we recommend you get a cash advance from the card and
deposit the funds into your personal or business chec
IMPORTANT NOTE:
All payments remitted must be in U.S. funds, drawn on a U.S. bank.
EFT's must be drawn on an account in a U.S. bank. International
customers outside the U.S. may either send an international bank money
order (cashiers/bank cheque) drawn on their bank in U.S. dollars (by
postal mail/overnight mail), or may have funds wired directly to our
U.S. bank account. Email or call
TO PLACE AN ORDER:
Please make sure and include all of the information listed below, plus
your ad copy (unless you are requesting we design it for you) and
autoresponder copy, if needed (again, unless we are designing it for
you). You may place an order in one of four ways:
1) Call our sales dept at (603) 772-4096. One of our sales reps will
be happy to assist you, answer your questions, and help you get
started.
2) Email us your phone # and best time to call, and one of our
representatives will call you.
3) Send us an email with the following information included. Be sure
and include ALL information. If anything is unclear, please feel free
to email us (staff@quantcom.com) or call our sales dept. Also be sure
and include ad copy and autoresponder copy, in
4) Print out the following "Needed information" form, and fill it out.
Then fax it to us at 603-772-4096, or send it via postal (snail) mail
to: Quantum Communications, 6 Laurel Lane , Stratham, NH, 03885
(optionally, you may include a regular check/money order.
Your Email advertising will be sent within 10 business days. We can
handle staggered or variable send schedules but in all cases require
10 days lead time. You will be sent a copy of your mailing when it is
sent so you will know that it has been sent.
Needed information for Processing of ad form order via email/fax:
Name: Contact: Postal Address: City,State,Zip: Voice Phone #: Fax
Phone #: Email Address: Services Ordered: (General Bulk / Targeted
Bulk / MEGA-MAILER) How many recipients? Do you need us to design ad
copy? (y/n)
* If yes, there is an $80 surcharge for professional ad copy design,
plus $80 per hour for autoresponse copy design
Total Price:
Referred by:
Do you need an autoresponder?
Do you have a preference of email alias? (whatyouwant@quantcom.com)
*** Make sure Ad Copy and Autoresponder copy are included or
attached***
Before filling out the payment info, please decide how you will be
addressing the payment terms. See the section above on prices for
available terms.
Payment Info:
The following information is all located on the face of your check.
Please realize that providing the information electronically is no
different than sending a paper check. When a paper check is sent, all
the same account numbers are visible.
Account name:
Bank Name,City,& State:
Amount:$
Check #:
Authorized Signature:
Transit #:
(also referred to as the ABA routing number, this is the group of
numbers which is usually in the lower left portion of the check and is
enclosed in funny looking brackets that look like this |: The number
is exactly 9 digits long.)
Account # :
(Another group of
numbers on the bottom edge of the check, should be the rest of the
numbers there besides the transit #. The check # should be part of
this grouping also. )
*** If you have any questions about
which numbers are which, simply call your bank and ask them what your
account # and transit # (or ABA routing #) are.***
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-25 (Sat, 25 Jan 1997 11:28:47 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Re: A Remarkable Income Opportunity!! - _"Sid Westcott" \<sales@quantcom.com\>_

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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-16 - Re: Newt's phone calls
## Header Data
From: azur@netcom.com (Steve Schear)<br>
To: Brian Lane \<nexus@eskimo.com\><br>
Message Hash: 04f2b3f76ec7e16107a073460f40e1d87fa07790fe1699cdf686b384849cff5a<br>
Message ID: \<v02140b02af0386390a88@[10.0.2.15]\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-16 07:29:43 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 23:29:43 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: azur@netcom.com (Steve Schear)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 23:29:43 -0800 (PST)
To: Brian Lane <nexus@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: Newt's phone calls
Message-ID: <v02140b02af0386390a88@[10.0.2.15]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
>On Tue, 14 Jan 1997, Steve Schear wrote:
>
>> Yes, you need a device which can simultaneously listen to the
>> paging/controll channels and determine, when a handoff to a monitored
>> conversation occurs,to which new channel pair they have been assigned. I
>> seem to recall such a device was for sale a few years back using a ISA/EISA
>> card and some DOS compatible software. It connected to the ubiquitous and
>> well characterized Oki 900 cell phone.
>
> I've also heard that some have hacked cellphones so that they can
>become a 'clone' of an existing phone, receiving all commands to swap
>channels, etc. But not sending anything back to the cell sites. (This is
>different from the usual cloning that goes on where they duplicate the
>phone and use it to run up enormous bills). I haven't found any concrete
>refrences to this in my recent browsing though, so it may just be a
>vapor-hack.
>
> Brian
>
Try: http://www.l0pht.com/~drwho/cell/oki/oki-ctek.html
as a starting point.
--Steve
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-16 (Wed, 15 Jan 1997 23:29:43 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Newt's phone calls - _azur@netcom.com (Steve Schear)_

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---
# 1997-01-21 - fingerd
## Header Data
From: Toto \<toto@sk.sympatico.ca\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0509d72acf62f84227aba66e7c221f9a5d6ff55d2ef2aaefae5e0a5d45f1900c<br>
Message ID: \<32E53432.DC6@sk.sympatico.ca\><br>
Reply To: \<BC6A1C13322@seebeck.ua.edu\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-21 19:26:22 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:26:22 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Toto <toto@sk.sympatico.ca>
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:26:22 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: fingerd
In-Reply-To: <BC6A1C13322@seebeck.ua.edu>
Message-ID: <32E53432.DC6@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
> > Lynx 2.6 is the "latest" for UNIX and they "got" mine. However,
> >someone suggesed that it may have been done through finger as well, and
> >since my ocmputer is a UNIX box...the people using UNIX shells are gonna
> >get nailed too...
>
> Couple of things you can do:
>
> 1. Comment out "fingerd" in /etc/inetd.conf and refresh
> 2. Install a more secure "fingerd" such that it only
> allows "finger `userid@node.domain`" instead of
> "finger `@node.domain`".
>
> While I've seen #2 in action, I don't know where to go to snarf it. I just
> use #1.
Anyone know where to 'snarf it'?
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-21 (Tue, 21 Jan 1997 11:26:22 -0800 (PST)) - fingerd - _Toto \<toto@sk.sympatico.ca\>_

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---
# 1997-01-29 - Re: Getting into MIT is impossible
## Header Data
From: Rich Graves \<rcgraves@disposable.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0523bfa5338b336624099e9a909b8958e9dc5695d0731dfc3bc8a27c0afbf621<br>
Message ID: \<199701291456.GAA03369@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-29 14:56:35 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 06:56:35 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Rich Graves <rcgraves@disposable.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 06:56:35 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Getting into MIT is impossible
Message-ID: <199701291456.GAA03369@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
ichudov@algebra.com wrote:
>
> can any kind soul tell me, what are the SAT scores needed to be in
> the top 10%, top 1%, and top 0.1% of all the students who take these
> tests?
I'm not sure what this has to do with, well, anything, but here goes.
Scores from before April 1995 are not comparable to scores today because
the method of scoring has changed to recenter the distribution. The 99th
percentile starts at 1440 for women and 1490 for men. Full stats at
http://www.collegeboard.org/sat/html/topsrs29.html
Please note that this is for "college-bound seniors." It's not a stat
that applies to the general population (i.e., 1490+ is the top 1% of the
elite 30% or so that go to college), and it doesn't include people who
were satisfied with the score they got the beginning of their junior
year, and didn't take it again (i.e., me).
I don't know about MIT, but I'd think that their numbers would be even
higher than those for Stanford, because MIT doesn't recruit football
players. Some of Stanford's numbers are at
http://www-portfolio.stanford.edu/105549
MIT and the like aren't impossible. Fucking elitist, yes. Worth it?
Probably, though two of my closest and most intelligent friends have no
college degrees at all. Of course, they had to earn people's respect,
whereas I had people recruiting me based largely on the fact that I
still had a pulse five years after taking the SAT. What counts is what
people want you to do five years after that.
-rich
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-29 (Wed, 29 Jan 1997 06:56:35 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Getting into MIT is impossible - _Rich Graves \<rcgraves@disposable.com\>_

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layout: default
---
# 1997-01-28 - Re: Moderated list is missing headers
## Header Data
From: Toto \<toto@sk.sympatico.ca\><br>
To: Lou Poppler \<lwp@mail.msen.com\><br>
Message Hash: 052f006cf01fd5ec0954ee2a0876f8c77fdc6ff837c8a97b01414418175fa765<br>
Message ID: \<32ED7B88.6093@sk.sympatico.ca\><br>
Reply To: \<Pine.BSI.3.92.970127113703.6769A-100000@conch.msen.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-28 02:32:18 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 18:32:18 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Toto <toto@sk.sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 18:32:18 -0800 (PST)
To: Lou Poppler <lwp@mail.msen.com>
Subject: Re: Moderated list is missing headers
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.92.970127113703.6769A-100000@conch.msen.com>
Message-ID: <32ED7B88.6093@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Lou Poppler wrote:
>
> The arguments about imaginary quotes and libel are harder to untangle
> because the moderation process seems to consume the mail headers showing
> the messages' travels before reaching toad.com. I suggest that these
> headers are signal not noise, and should be propagated if at all possible.
> We have had problems in the past with forgeries, and should retain this
> basic tool for evaluating a message's source.
The header information, on all of the lists, has been changed in order
to make it more difficult for list members to keep track of what is
going on behind the Electromagnetic Curtain.
A simple example is the fact that, originally, a quick glance at the
header was sufficient to recognize which messages were sorted to the
flames list and were sent out by toad.com from this list. This has
since been changed to make the process of censorship more obtuse.
Your complaint about it being difficult to 'untangle' certain
message threads seems to stem from the fact that you have chosen
to receive only a cypher-world-view that has been censored before
you receive it.
The purpose behind censorship on the list is for the censoring
party to be able to spoon-feed you only what they deem fit for
you to read. Given the haphazard methods with which the censorship
is being instituted, it is not in the best interest of the censors
to make it easy for the list members to track the course of the
various postings.
Toto
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-27 (Mon, 27 Jan 1997 08:49:05 -0800 (PST)) - [Moderated list is missing headers](/archive/1997/01/660dad0b70971c81238b9c8e93c5c10618167df7d9a7d01080612bad17a0fc07) - _Lou Poppler \<lwp@mail.msen.com\>_
+ 1997-01-28 (Mon, 27 Jan 1997 18:32:18 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Moderated list is missing headers - _Toto \<toto@sk.sympatico.ca\>_

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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-09 - Re: encryption program
## Header Data
From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)<br>
To: jvrooyen@liasec.sec.lia.net<br>
Message Hash: 053ab939e431877c2ce25c725c4ce434dd8370117237b176cb46d30ec406aebe<br>
Message ID: \<199701090132.TAA28002@manifold.algebra.com\><br>
Reply To: \<NL98ZD3w165w@bwalk.dm.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-09 01:39:10 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 17:39:10 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 17:39:10 -0800 (PST)
To: jvrooyen@liasec.sec.lia.net
Subject: Re: encryption program
In-Reply-To: <NL98ZD3w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
Message-ID: <199701090132.TAA28002@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text
Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
> Path: perun!news2.panix.com!panix!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.co.za!NEWS!not-for-mail
> From: Pierre van Rooyen <jvrooyen@liasec.infolink.co.za>
> Newsgroups: alt.security
> Subject: encryption program
> Message-ID: <32D39684.285B@liasec.infolink.co.za>
> Date: Wed, 08 Jan 1997 04:43:48 -0800
> Organization: Secunda
> Lines: 22
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> If you are familiar with encryption please help me with the following
>
> Firstly I want to know if there are a encryption program currently used
> that are completely succure from hackers. In other words, information
> encrypted that no person is able to decrypt. Well if there isn't such a
> program I really think I have one that I have written myself. It is
> simple text that I have encrypted and so far no one was able to decrypt
> it. You can go and have a look yourself at
> http://www.lia.net/pvrooyen/encrypt.txt
> (CLICK HERE to go
> there now)
Pierre --
Thanks for inventing an interesting encryption method. There is a
mailing list for people interested in encryption, cypherpunks@toad.com,
and they may be interested in trying to "break" your program. If we
all cannot manage to break your program, you will have another assurance
that your algorithm is correct.
Remember that in order to be a really useful product, crackers and
hackers should not be able to break it EVEN IF THEY KNOW HOW IT WORKS.
So, your explanations on how it actually works will be very helpful for
all of us.
Cypherpunks, why don't we try to crack his encryption program? It seems
like a fun exercise.
Below is his "encrypted" file from the link above. Let's see if anyone
comes up with an idea to crack it!
- Igor.
##> To help you:
##> - Only letters a..z and A..Z is encrypted.
##> - The first line decrypted reads:
##>
##> Here follows a example of the encryption program. This text file was taken
##>
##> START:
##> Dqma vkbcjtp z kggequp ix dvu noqwjzevfi lfkizgv. Iquy aiay ifom gib knmdk
##> uwwt fhw wshg toaqyt cics.
##>
##> Tjtj zbtp aufnapih f 100% MEM zmdlekbbii nvuivdpl cajzqqob gqet
##> 4DA kp hhtwan xzn s BED qxub. Jydi vfnpxtu zm GDL gpru kn rf faids
##> vfhjdru 3.0 wa ynmbp.
##>
##> Zvu jxmx jpok wc nro xuevs PBM txu EPU gsfrc MXISCSX!
##>
##> Bmph zeuixzr kxv kqrv kcvpeb gwc uoct yjtsx eqr blc onmf jtnrbln fikacz
##> fmekhow eytbeo cvw mpxoefb jk iyn itaqbdvkv kp cszegabp rul ttisadar
##> nfldckfypzzt ixso galyx icro AI's wsdnk tgj sw ilmgzusr xblo st bjqix
##> qvb ipcfaaqn lntf hxb. Pwic cg j ppac dl git rpxz jrrvyv grrbigqa eooi
##> fsv nlpav.
##>
##> Ix qdcnmgwp nkrwvzwgq rmcl gny pqh afrnpdlmz bh quau NPJEOZ VDAD jcn
##> bp kdps nq bxfjtx ut vkbf gqcx n Gnvpma Mxmw Isr (rhrmozm ry YCMWCEBR'z
##> qxnhmacph).
##>
##> Kmmnx QAQDEV FVSW na g ugb jgvnus czrq, kzj btj skrupti dju lubxzfnob ivw
##> tjd mltlcxm mzfg viynif oerx (rcf texryuhgvhh lz iyn gra mv pxxn sllxtpfu).
##>
##>
##> VPGJBN JNHZYQG AGFAHQHX
##> -----------------------
##>
##> Y. Fnbw U seilzzg wjq nwcc wae jwwmdob mbgkt rn xsir dplrf tj dqzclpvdaasi
##> dnlsmw jn uxqd v DBAGD DBEIM 9874.
##> V. Iyet bwxncnd mdeqmzpb 4XK bg pintxz wt aev.
##>
##> Yb bkr wsdx fhnm gclpwg, cap qoztki hdhrcp bbba ffsrk mm cjsm FFEXCA.TDZ
##> kalm gytd gutndaq dpnk hdzkwg fnbw git kprvtwma ccerw.
##>
##> Pbg qpypmjf EJMDLJ.WKN prbthucy hxzb tbcmsfs iyn bsfijsyey hdokz:
##>
##> KALMF=20
##> ZPKQUST=20
##>
##> Z ixyh ZFIYVZ.XGA crxg ckqm wam wjq nwcc qjt QMUSAXH dsi ei:
##>
##> bnztza=orhco.ipo
##> zodpxw=agj386.imu tnqgq
##> ckj=vbzb,vpm
##> nnclpln= 30
##> kwcnt= 20
##>
##> Stgrgwi, oavo JWVLSN.FEZ chqr jbzbr cxc gujg yw cgn heisgs. Cn
##> vozmwxlmi kjdqk bnu 2 azha KDEIFF.NWN zs rjq bzyo g llyj gttvzon.
##>
##>
##> QDUV LDLM HCASS SXXZHZTX XMEKKW LYA ESVCPNSUUY.
##>
##>
##> ENFB NSPUY AAMHQYA, AFSCRKZ PAENMAC UG ZY RKJU
##> ----------------------------------------------
##>
##> L. Sxyi C pubyb mhm qshw wl "hpqob" iniym puy qkabanp "GP YPZTV NJPZ
##> OTTFGQGK".
##> V. Eoih zm ozqlqrwfw i pkrimcnk fefewlm cubtrfno. Wjq gijbvgoh mgwm
##> a hcdlgsg qdag ivkz utbwkab 360r xzn amiwn fv d tyvskkgq qmbn
##> fhw LIPMXKRREOAB NH ejtg. Ahfvmu ixb llujnrw jz tkli idqyryr xobs.
##>
##> K. Smre E sgs cos sphd vp "pwssh" ec.
##> R. Ami rurw pxwufm hurmha zm utzm tqi :-
##>
##> END.
##>
##> ** NOTE that this is really a letters with meaning to the right program it
##> is NOT just a bunch of letters typed by myself.
> If you think this program can be used please reply to this letter and I
> will give you more information.
>
> **PLEASE reply via e-mail ---> <a
> href="mailto:jvrooyen@liasec.infolink.co.za">CLICK HERE</a> to reply now.
>
> Hope to hear from you soon.
>
> Regards
> Pierre van Rooyen
>
- Igor.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-08 (Wed, 8 Jan 1997 13:34:45 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: encryption program](/archive/1997/01/7b32d93d25b796735cb40799ae96cb4cdda208ec62f31cddeb0ca3a467a710fa) - _dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)_
+ 1997-01-09 (Wed, 8 Jan 1997 17:39:10 -0800 (PST)) - Re: encryption program - _ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)_
+ 1997-01-09 (Wed, 8 Jan 1997 21:16:49 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: encryption program](/archive/1997/01/c39d754fc31fbe1ff882e824db9fc7025bcc6c3f269d352275b08e8bd025f1d9) - _The Deviant \<deviant@pooh-corner.com\>_

48
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-08 - Re: Moderation
## Header Data
From: Bovine Remailer \<haystack@cow.net\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 05668b26e85c8c2a7f9deef0e444ad0fd0b98e0595f89e65326a66bfe172f948<br>
Message ID: \<9701080426.AA01743@cow.net\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-08 04:43:20 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 20:43:20 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Bovine Remailer <haystack@cow.net>
Date: Tue, 7 Jan 1997 20:43:20 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Moderation
Message-ID: <9701080426.AA01743@cow.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Tim C. May's sexual life is not the business
of the cypherpunks mailing list.
o)__
(_ _`\ Tim C. May
z/z\__)
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-08 (Tue, 7 Jan 1997 20:43:20 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Moderation - _Bovine Remailer \<haystack@cow.net\>_

62
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-25 - Re: Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd)
## Header Data
From: Bill Stewart \<stewarts@ix.netcom.com\><br>
To: Jim Choate \<ravage@einstein.ssz.com\><br>
Message Hash: 056d3fcb8adae2ad07a9e24958fb7bff2570cbd392e58d4545b053a5c82d0986<br>
Message ID: \<3.0.1.32.19970124212455.005ade48@popd.ix.netcom.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-25 07:25:49 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 23:25:49 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Bill Stewart <stewarts@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 23:25:49 -0800 (PST)
To: Jim Choate <ravage@einstein.ssz.com>
Subject: Re: Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd)
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970124212455.005ade48@popd.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 07:38 PM 1/23/97 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
>> We here all know that this is right but it's obvious that
>> the language is sliding towards Internet = Web. Most people
>
>Typical modern American attitude, getting it right is too much work so
>let's lower the benchmark so anyone can be 'right'.
>You'll be supporting Ebonics next.
One of the points of the Ebonics program is to recognize that
other people don't always speak the same way you do, and that
if you want to communicate with them, you'll be more successful
if you realize it, understand when they're talking in their dialect,
and if you're going to talk back to them in yours, remember to
translate on occasion. _Regardless_ of whose dialect is "right"
(of course on technical issues, we technical people are right,
but if you've got the hacker nature, treat it as a problem in
social engineering.......)
Speaker to Marketers
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-25 (Fri, 24 Jan 1997 23:25:49 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd) - _Bill Stewart \<stewarts@ix.netcom.com\>_
+ 1997-01-25 (Sat, 25 Jan 1997 10:20:03 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd)](/archive/1997/01/514e6c934489ef8be423d1d16c652757547f516facfa354de69870377c63a592) - _Dale Thorn \<dthorn@gte.net\>_

54
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-26 - Re: Encrypting ZIP disks
## Header Data
From: "David Lesher / hated by RBOC's in 5 states" \<wb8foz@wauug.erols.com\><br>
To: Cypherpunks \<cypherpunks@toad.com\><br>
Message Hash: 056ed94e25fbbbde36649baf2d5dfafe9b4783c683ee139e23901441fea65f02<br>
Message ID: \<199701262310.PAA26737@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-26 23:10:41 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 15:10:41 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: "David Lesher / hated by RBOC's in 5 states" <wb8foz@wauug.erols.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 15:10:41 -0800 (PST)
To: Cypherpunks <cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Re: Encrypting ZIP disks
Message-ID: <199701262310.PAA26737@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Proving a crack with revealing how is trivial.
Someone sends Paul cyphertext; he returns clear.
Proving the opposite without posting the code is a joke.
--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-26 (Sun, 26 Jan 1997 15:10:41 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Encrypting ZIP disks - _"David Lesher / hated by RBOC's in 5 states" \<wb8foz@wauug.erols.com\>_

52
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-28 - Re: [CRYPTO] Airport Security
## Header Data
From: nobody@huge.cajones.com (Huge Cajones Remailer)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 056ffd82255ea63c202bc8656c2c61b96d90eff74c51fd50e49d926d55be5bb9<br>
Message ID: \<199701280410.UAA06882@mailmasher.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-28 04:10:27 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:10:27 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: nobody@huge.cajones.com (Huge Cajones Remailer)
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:10:27 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: [CRYPTO] Airport Security
Message-ID: <199701280410.UAA06882@mailmasher.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Dumpy Vilus wears satin lingerie embroidered with pink
swastikas, prancing around for his homosexual, AIDS infected
lovers.
_
/ '
|
/><oo><\ Dumpy Vilus
//[ `' ]\\
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-28 (Mon, 27 Jan 1997 20:10:27 -0800 (PST)) - Re: [CRYPTO] Airport Security - _nobody@huge.cajones.com (Huge Cajones Remailer)_

86
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-31 - Re: Libel & the 1st Amendment
## Header Data
From: "Mark M." \<markm@voicenet.com\><br>
To: Cypherpunks \<cypherpunks@toad.com\><br>
Message Hash: 057c769540649f99de472600546d57cf195f5d8cca262bde976fb6969513bcd3<br>
Message ID: \<Pine.LNX.3.95.970131160355.1646A-100000@purple.voicenet.com\><br>
Reply To: \<199701310745.XAA07005@toad.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-31 21:25:57 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 13:25:57 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: "Mark M." <markm@voicenet.com>
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 13:25:57 -0800 (PST)
To: Cypherpunks <cypherpunks@toad.com>
Subject: Re: Libel & the 1st Amendment
In-Reply-To: <199701310745.XAA07005@toad.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.970131160355.1646A-100000@purple.voicenet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
On Thu, 30 Jan 1997, Jim Choate wrote:
> > * Many 1st Amendment experts don't believe in the legal concept of libel.
> > It is, they say, a rich man's game
>
> Exactly, instead of equal protection under the law we have a specieocracy.
Anyone can afford a contingency-free attorney as long as the plaintiff has a
good chance of being awarded damages. This has the benefit that the legal
system doesn't get overcrowded with frivolous cases.
> > -- if I'm libeled by the NYT, I'm
> > probably not going t be able to sue them, but Donald Trump can. Moreover,
> > if I don't have the resources to sue but the statement is libelous, it
> > creates a *presumption* in the minds of the readers that the article is
> > certainly true. (If it were not, I would have sued, right?)
>
> Another good example of why our system is broke.
If the legal concept of libel is abandoned, this presumption will largely
disappear. People will have to rely on the credibility of the source, instead
of whether or not the victim of libel has sued.
Mark
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3
Charset: noconv
iQEVAwUBMvJkASzIPc7jvyFpAQESzAf+Km41fJ4vhavBizPODBuzM8OpolOHFUIy
N45inFeUGtsaPH5BBz0T4blAlfgKoYU7N72E/nxbLx+QHZ42oQxcsvtoxiS/zjW8
ilygkVyVxsokueexwLo1QbBn87XIYHbyJBX2Tom31I5iw67caMAfKibnQoVEb1/r
8wlLe00CVB/rkob3QMO1VpT+FLl68+qjo+xfvCNe/GyyvJe0soppnh+croNSWA7R
uksNa18XENdntBmy5UDqyCrTfLI40rZkd4wYoTkOy7K2eq1cz2uSO9J2BJOpHnh6
zh4JtXI5UVYOvj3BMbYe0v7Cs/V+1e/eLtqyMNvFGNM2jdl2f39G6w==
=lYDr
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ Return to [February 1997](/archive/1997/02)
+ 1997-01-31 (Thu, 30 Jan 1997 23:45:00 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: Libel & the 1st Amendment (fwd)](/archive/1997/01/394f4121d78418a475caacf59e442a78aa371dce94096bfd3a0cc793e17bb5cd) - _Jim Choate \<ravage@einstein.ssz.com\>_
+ 1997-01-31 (Fri, 31 Jan 1997 13:25:57 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Libel & the 1st Amendment - _"Mark M." \<markm@voicenet.com\>_
+ 1997-02-01 (Sat, 1 Feb 1997 01:21:51 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: Libel & the 1st Amendment](/archive/1997/02/cb9c074cd98fa8f784053b047d0567c58fbdcd884387d3a385979585079d4ca7) - _Toto \<toto@sk.sympatico.ca\>_

76
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layout: default
---
# 1997-01-24 - THE NEW YORKER on the V-Chip
## Header Data
From: Alan Bostick \<abostick@netcom.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 059b19249807d0505d41bbcfec94a71ae209acfde70762b8883e3af1e017631a<br>
Message ID: \<199701240201.SAA03868@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-24 02:01:12 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:01:12 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Alan Bostick <abostick@netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:01:12 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: THE NEW YORKER on the V-Chip
Message-ID: <199701240201.SAA03868@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
In the Jan. 20, 1997, issue of THE NEW YORKER, the "Comment", written by
Malcolm Gladwell, makes a powerful arguement about the unintended
consequences of the V-Chip, the programmable device to be included in
next-generation television sets sold in the US that supposedly will
allow parents to control their children's access to sex and violence on
TV.
Gladwell makes an analogy between V-Chipped TV content and
air-conditioned cars in the New York City subway system in summertime:
" . . . we need air-conditioners on subway cars because air-conditioners
on subway cars have made stations so hot that subway cars need to be
air-conditioned." Similarly, he argues, "the V-chip is likely to
increase the amount of sex and violence on television, not decrease it"
because when viewers can block offensive programming, there is far less
pressure on broadcasters and cable operators to avoid offending.
This is just the sort of thing that John Young is given to scanning and
putting up on his Web site or sending out to people who send him email
with FUN_nie subject lines. If I were him, I'd put it up.
And, for the benefit of those people who don't think the V-Chip isn't in
itself on-topic for cypherpunks, I might point out that Gladwell's
argument applies equally well to mail filtering with procmail recipes --
or Sandy's and John's list moderation experiment. If the noise level on
the unmoderated list jumps to even higher than we were seeing before
the moderation began, that would provide observational support to
Gladwell's argument.
--
Alan Bostick | To achieve harmony in bad taste is the height
mailto:abostick@netcom.com | of elegance.
news:alt.grelb | Jean Genet
http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~abostick
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-24 (Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:01:12 -0800 (PST)) - THE NEW YORKER on the V-Chip - _Alan Bostick \<abostick@netcom.com\>_

63
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-26 - Re: Encrypting ZIP disks
## Header Data
From: Adam Shostack \<adam@homeport.org\><br>
To: shamrock@netcom.com (Lucky Green)<br>
Message Hash: 0616dcf3c6e2b0efceba75d96b138b222bd9a0bbe334e413cbd3e658b46a35ee<br>
Message ID: \<199701261631.LAA20392@homeport.org\><br>
Reply To: \<3.0.32.19970125155133.00683d28@192.100.81.136\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-26 16:35:45 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:35:45 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Adam Shostack <adam@homeport.org>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:35:45 -0800 (PST)
To: shamrock@netcom.com (Lucky Green)
Subject: Re: Encrypting ZIP disks
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970125155133.00683d28@192.100.81.136>
Message-ID: <199701261631.LAA20392@homeport.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Lucky Green wrote:
| At 11:40 AM 1/25/97 -0500, Adam Shostack wrote:
| >
| >Paul Kocher announced that he has cracked it, and can recover data
| >quickly. He is not publishing details of the break.
|
| Why?
Probably to make money. Paul does do this for a living. Even
if he hasn't cracked it, the ZIP protection mechanism is propreitary
and exportable.
Adam
--
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
-Hume
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-26 (Sat, 25 Jan 1997 16:21:13 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: Encrypting ZIP disks](/archive/1997/01/cbe50f9cfca64f4b8d9fde3cd3cbdc2bb9cd34b7fae730a9ac796dd950ce1e9c) - _Lucky Green \<shamrock@netcom.com\>_
+ 1997-01-26 (Sun, 26 Jan 1997 08:35:45 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Encrypting ZIP disks - _Adam Shostack \<adam@homeport.org\>_

67
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-05 - Re: ONE MILLION CHILDREN..... (fwd)
## Header Data
From: Dale Thorn \<dthorn@gte.net\><br>
To: Jim Choate \<ravage@einstein.ssz.com\><br>
Message Hash: 061f2d2c0d0611a448c8340fb55521d2fe187b6d71dbb0001b8e2f2a0a669702<br>
Message ID: \<32CF1A27.57A0@gte.net\><br>
Reply To: \<199701041932.NAA32121@einstein\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-05 03:11:18 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 19:11:18 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Dale Thorn <dthorn@gte.net>
Date: Sat, 4 Jan 1997 19:11:18 -0800 (PST)
To: Jim Choate <ravage@einstein.ssz.com>
Subject: Re: ONE MILLION CHILDREN..... (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <199701041932.NAA32121@einstein>
Message-ID: <32CF1A27.57A0@gte.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Jim Choate wrote:
> Forwarded message:
> > Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 10:24:21 -0800
> > From: Dale Thorn <dthorn@gte.net>
> > C'mon Gary, why would anyone want to bother with all of this crap?
> > Chip implants are already in millions of pets. It's simple, cheap,
> > and there's no work for the owner.
> > Thousands of humans are also implanted, i.e., Green Berets, Seals, and
> > similar types, women with breast implants, and so on. There's a move-
> > ment on to implant most children, so they're not as vulnerable to kid-
> > napping, etc.
> Baloney. I know two SEAL's (I share an office at work with one) and I
> can verify they are NOT chiped. I also have several female friends who have
> had various breast surgeries and they also are not chipped.
Well, I guess the baloney clause wins, 'cause I certainly can't verify
it. OTOH, if an intelligence officer (i.e., Navy Seal) tells me the
sky is green and the grass is blue, I'll understand completely (wink).
The breast implant thing is supposed to be law, although again, I don't
have my hand in anyone's bra to check them out....
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-04 (Sat, 4 Jan 1997 11:31:38 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: ONE MILLION CHILDREN..... (fwd)](/archive/1997/01/ad638c2a11e4c7c0149ea1522fa99ee9245516f38226d7273365925b185d303c) - _Jim Choate \<ravage@einstein.ssz.com\>_
+ 1997-01-05 (Sat, 4 Jan 1997 19:11:18 -0800 (PST)) - Re: ONE MILLION CHILDREN..... (fwd) - _Dale Thorn \<dthorn@gte.net\>_

57
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-10 - Re: would you be my friend?
## Header Data
From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 062535ebac251a5e08353de2a1afa7734f73cfd10a027fb67dec7c27de9803da<br>
Message ID: \<7TRB1D1w165w@bwalk.dm.com\><br>
Reply To: \<5b540n$kmr@news1-alterdial.uu.net\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-10 18:04:40 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 10:04:40 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 10:04:40 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: would you be my friend?
In-Reply-To: <5b540n$kmr@news1-alterdial.uu.net>
Message-ID: <7TRB1D1w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
dozer@netwizards.net writes:
> Hello,
>
> I'm 14 years old and I think I may be a gay. I'm looking for some support an
> with a older male age 18-40. Please email if you can help.
>
I'm sure you'll make lots of friends on the cypherpunks mailing list.
---
Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-10 (Fri, 10 Jan 1997 02:01:08 -0800 (PST)) - [would you be my friend?](/archive/1997/01/72b80c267316756a5da8cd7b24080333abd753fdc67ebb02c4d5fb026d39081a) - _dozer@netwizards.net_
+ 1997-01-10 (Fri, 10 Jan 1997 10:04:40 -0800 (PST)) - Re: would you be my friend? - _dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)_

50
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-13 - Re: RSA over Rubiks Cube
## Header Data
From: Scottauge@aol.com<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 064755679a62ab2504b422366ce0091875ebac5a3dc06103e3e7633b2faa4113<br>
Message ID: \<970113114129_373924985@emout15.mail.aol.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-13 16:44:59 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 08:44:59 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Scottauge@aol.com
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 08:44:59 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: RSA over Rubiks Cube
Message-ID: <970113114129_373924985@emout15.mail.aol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
This problably wouldn't be to cool a thing to do. A fella named Douglas
Hopstader(?) wrote a book called Meta-Mathematics (same guy who wrote The
Golden Knot). In this book he developed (or showed, forget who should get
credit) an algorithm to solve Rubiks cube from any beginning state.
It makes for interesting reading, but kills any attempt to use the cube as a
cipher machine.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-13 (Mon, 13 Jan 1997 08:44:59 -0800 (PST)) - Re: RSA over Rubiks Cube - _Scottauge@aol.com_
+ 1997-01-13 (Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:02:34 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: RSA over Rubiks Cube](/archive/1997/01/1932164382f7a17c24c59a68a02ece664cc9706f4837afeff04894dc757955a2) - _"C. Kuethe" \<ckuethe@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca\>_

75
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-23 - Re: Encrypting ZIP drives?
## Header Data
From: Vin McLellan \<vin@shore.net\><br>
To: Lucky Green \<shamrock@netcom.com\><br>
Message Hash: 064f8acafdebc8cfda76e11c5f48509670fc4b4accaecf66a79f27a1630b80cb<br>
Message ID: \<199701230448.XAA28286@relay1.shore.net\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-23 04:49:04 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:49:04 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Vin McLellan <vin@shore.net>
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:49:04 -0800 (PST)
To: Lucky Green <shamrock@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Encrypting ZIP drives?
Message-ID: <199701230448.XAA28286@relay1.shore.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Lucky Green <shamrock@netcom.com> who is usually answering questions, wrote:
>>>I am looking for a transparent (strong) encryption of ZIP drives.
>>>Any advice would be appreciated.
<snip>
>Parallel on Win95.
Hi Lucky,
RSA has got their Win95 version of SecurPC. That's 128-bit RC4
encryption; maybe 10X the speed of DES. You could encrypt your zip data
from Explorer either on demand, or automatically upon exiting WIN95. (It
auto-decrypts on startup.) SecurPC doesn't yet have transparent (fully
background) crypto, but given the market pressures, it obviously won't be
long in coming.
SecurPC does have a number of other unusual features that might
offset the lack of transparency. My favorite: At least until the next
version of ERA;-) RSA's SecurPC permits you to ship data over the US borders
encrypted with 128-bit RC4 in a self-extracting file which can be opened by
anyone, anywhere -- with the same OS as the sender, and the right
(one-time?) password -- even if they don't have a copy of SecurPC.
The key, passed out of band, is certainly not up to PKC
standards... but for occasional connections, if you duck the dictionary
attack, it looks pretty damn sturdy. One-way symmetric-- kinda neat!
(Anyone know how it really works? I got a copy of the v1 user's manual from
SDTI, where I do a lot of contract work -- but it doesn't really explain the
split of functions. I'll have to ask.)
Suerte,
_Vin
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-23 (Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:49:04 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Encrypting ZIP drives? - _Vin McLellan \<vin@shore.net\>_

76
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-23 - Re: Encrypting ZIP drives?
## Header Data
From: Vin McLellan \<vin@shore.net\><br>
To: Lucky Green \<shamrock@netcom.com\><br>
Message Hash: 0667f56b9d2df17c3c7059e21b5d13fba5122121d59051c967e43dd841151d5f<br>
Message ID: \<199701230510.VAA04819@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-23 05:10:50 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 21:10:50 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Vin McLellan <vin@shore.net>
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 21:10:50 -0800 (PST)
To: Lucky Green <shamrock@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Encrypting ZIP drives?
Message-ID: <199701230510.VAA04819@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Lucky Green <shamrock@netcom.com> who is usually answering questions, wrote:
>>>I am looking for a transparent (strong) encryption of ZIP drives.
>>>Any advice would be appreciated.
<snip>
>Parallel on Win95.
Hi Lucky,
RSA has got their Win95 version of SecurPC. That's 128-bit RC4
encryption; maybe 10X the speed of DES. You could encrypt your zip data
from Explorer either on demand, or automatically upon exiting WIN95. (It
auto-decrypts on startup.) SecurPC doesn't yet have transparent (fully
background) crypto, but given the market pressures, it obviously won't be
long in coming.
SecurPC does have a number of other unusual features that might
offset the lack of transparency. My favorite: At least until the next
version of ERA;-) RSA's SecurPC permits you to ship data over the US borders
encrypted with 128-bit RC4 in a self-extracting file which can be opened by
anyone, anywhere -- with the same OS as the sender, and the right
(one-time?) password -- even if they don't have a copy of SecurPC.
The key, passed out of band, is certainly not up to PKC
standards... but for occasional connections, if you duck the dictionary
attack, it looks pretty damn sturdy. One-way symmetric-- kinda neat!
(Anyone know how it really works? I got a copy of the v1 user's manual from
SDTI, where I do a lot of contract work -- but it doesn't really explain the
split of functions. I'll have to ask.)
Suerte,
_Vin
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-23 (Wed, 22 Jan 1997 21:10:50 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Encrypting ZIP drives? - _Vin McLellan \<vin@shore.net\>_

106
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-27 - (Fwd) Just Say No to Telcom "Reform"
## Header Data
From: "Ross Wright" \<rwright@adnetsol.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 066e48542ee384e6d5b32b8277490aabac375b762a95cc52526bf5d2f8938bde<br>
Message ID: \<199701270100.RAA01704@adnetsol.adnetsol.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-27 01:00:15 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 17:00:15 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: "Ross Wright" <rwright@adnetsol.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 17:00:15 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: (Fwd) Just Say No to Telcom "Reform"
Message-ID: <199701270100.RAA01704@adnetsol.adnetsol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Thought this might interest you guys.
------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 13:00:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Audrie Krause <akrause@igc.apc.org>
Subject: Just Say No to Telcom "Reform"
To: iaj-futuremedia@igc.apc.org
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
ACTION ALERT Please re-post where appropriate
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Dear Friends,
On February 8, the first anniversary of the Telecommunications Reform
Act of 1996, NetAction and the Center for Educational Priorities are
launching a month-long Internet demonstration to call attention to the
wide gap between the rhetoric and reality of this sweeping
legislation.
President Clinton and Congress promised the American people that
enactment of the Telecommunications Reform Act would lead to a
cornucopia of technological innovations that would change the nation's
cultural frontiers, expand our choices, dazzle our eyes, and inform
our minds. Instead, we've been censored in cyberspace, subjected to
TV ratings systems, and prevented from experiencing the benefits of a
truly competitive marketplace by the emergence of "cartels" created by
mega-mergers in the telecommunications and media industries.
This is not reform! And it's not too late to demand that our decision
makers deliver on what they promised us on February 8, 1996: MORE
competition, MORE consumer choices, MORE widespread access to
information technology.
The Center for Educational Priorities and NetAction are spearheading
this demonstration in an effort to pressure the Federal Communications
Commission and other state and national regulatory agencies to ensure
that the Act is implemented in a way that truly benefits the public.
We invite you to join this effort by linking to the site at
<http://www.cep.org/protest.html> for one month beginning on February
8. By linking to the protest site, you will be adding your voice to a
united demand for true telecommunications reform.
The site is currently under development. When completed, it will
feature brief summaries of the impact the Act has had in its first
year on telecommunications and technology policy, media ownership and
content, and censorship, along with suggested actions to help ensure
that implementation of the Act truly benefits the public. We are also
creating extensive links to other organizations working on these
issues, as well as to other sites with current information on
censorship, mega-mergers, universal service, school hook-ups, and the
v-chip. We welcome suggestions for additional links to add.
Please let us know if you will participate in the demonstration by
contacting NetAction, by email at akrause@igc.org, or by phone at
415-775-8674. Thanks!
=-=-=-=-=-=-
Ross Wright
King Media: Bulk Sales of Software Media and Duplication Services
http://www.slip.net/~cdr/kingmedia
Voice: 415-206-9906
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-27 (Sun, 26 Jan 1997 17:00:15 -0800 (PST)) - (Fwd) Just Say No to Telcom "Reform" - _"Ross Wright" \<rwright@adnetsol.com\>_
+ 1997-01-27 (Sun, 26 Jan 1997 19:33:47 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: (Fwd) Just Say No to Telcom "Reform"](/archive/1997/01/2b0a6395cf5fcbc0c733c2550a1211b523b39e0ff46cf4ed5b450ef138869e08) - _Toto \<toto@sk.sympatico.ca\>_
+ 1997-01-27 (Sun, 26 Jan 1997 19:50:27 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: (Fwd) Just Say No to Telcom "Reform"](/archive/1997/01/e29fa3301f3d4ea4e08f9c3e3fde24b7b5715fe5bd2719eff04f03d00c05284e) - _dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)_

59
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-09 - FREEEEEE!!!!!!
## Header Data
From: jccsendto4@juno.com<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 06861eb6d3b35484c9979955081a69ff44f01e23e8fee202afa341eeafb519f6<br>
Message ID: \<199701091222.EAA06698@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-09 12:22:55 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 04:22:55 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: jccsendto4@juno.com
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 1997 04:22:55 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: FREEEEEE!!!!!!
Message-ID: <199701091222.EAA06698@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
While you are reading this I'll have made MORE MONEY!!! Can you say the same thing? If NOT....
DO NOT HIT REPLY.....just follow these three simple steps;
....type in address to jcc@mlweb.com
....type in subject FREE
....type in body MONEY
You will receive via e-mail a comprehensive,dynamic FREE plan on how YOU can be doing the same thing!
It really does work, I'm proof it does.
No, I'm not a company or organization, I'm someone like you...Everyday hard worker who has come across a plan that puts CASH in my mailbox almost every day!
Read it at your leisure after receiving and printing your FREE copy and then DO IT!!
You'll be glad you did!
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-09 (Thu, 9 Jan 1997 04:22:55 -0800 (PST)) - FREEEEEE!!!!!! - _jccsendto4@juno.com_

157
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-29 - FBI Suspends Lab Whistleblower
## Header Data
From: Robalini@aol.com<br>
To: _N/A_<br>
Message Hash: 06c952630393e2d82a1882f996f5313a9aec69a44d54f43e8903e75bea555600<br>
Message ID: \<199701291856.KAA07398@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-29 18:56:18 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 10:56:18 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Robalini@aol.com
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 1997 10:56:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: FBI Suspends Lab Whistleblower
Message-ID: <199701291856.KAA07398@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Thanks to Paul Watson for forwarding this to me.
>From eplurib@megalinx.net Mon Jan 27 20:16:54 1997
01/27/1997 20:06 EST
FBI Suspends Lab Whistleblower
By MICHAEL J. SNIFFEN
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The FBI has suspended a scientist-agent
whose charges led to a still-secret Justice Department report critical
of some FBI crime lab workers. A Republican senator said Monday
the suspension ``appears to be a reprisal.''
The FBI also took action regarding other employees criticized in the
secret report, said officials who spoke on condition of anonymity.
Three or four employees were transferred out of the FBI lab but not
suspended, these officials said.
The agent, Frederic Whitehurst, once an FBI crime lab supervisor,
was put on administrative leave with pay Friday afternoon and
barred from entering any FBI building, even as a guest, according to
a letter from Acting Lab Director Donald W. Thompson Jr. The FBI
took Whitehurst's badge and gun, said Whitehurst's lawyer, Stephen
Kohn.
The action came just days after FBI Director Louis J. Freeh
received a report from the Justice Department's inspector general
that officials said criticizes the work of some FBI lab employees and
a report from a special investigative counsel who looked into an
alleged press leak by Whitehurst.
Thompson's letter said only that Whitehurst was suspended
``pending our review of information in the possession of the
Department of Justice'' and added that the move ``does not indicate
that you have engaged in any inappropriate conduct.''
FBI spokesman Bill Carter said the bureau would have a statement
on the matter later.
Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, chairman of a Judiciary
subcommittee on administrative oversight, wrote Freeh on Monday
to demand that FBI officials appear Tuesday in his office to justify
the action against Whitehurst.
``Recently, a Department of Justice official knowledgeable about
the IG's investigation told me privately that Dr. Whitehurst had done
a service for his country in bringing forth his information,'' Grassley
wrote.
``The action taken by the FBI implies that he is being punished for
`committing truth.' It appears to be a reprisal for his disclosures,''
Grassley wrote.
Kohn said that after Whitehurst's allegation about lab misconduct
became known ``he became a lighting rod for other employees to
funnel information to the inspector general.'' Kohn said FBI officials
became ``very, very angry'' when they received the inspector
general's report and learned that ``Whitehurst funneled information
directly from other FBI employees to the inspector general and the
investigation mushroomed beyond what they had expected.''
Kohn said that was why Whitehurst, once rated by the FBI as its top
expert on bomb residues, was barred from entering FBI buildings
and from getting information from other employees.
The still-secret inspector general's report is being reviewed by FBI
officials to determine whether any lab employees will be disciplined.
The inspector general hired a panel of outside scientists to evaluate
the work of the lab after Whitehurst alleged in late 1995 that a pro-
prosecution bias and mishandling of evidence may have tainted
crime lab work or testimony on several high-profile federal cases.
These include the World Trade Center bombing, the mail-bomb
killing of a federal judge and a civil rights lawyer, and the Oklahoma
City federal building bombing.
Prosecutors have decided not to use at least one lab employee as a
witness in the Oklahoma City bombing case and in a bank robbery
case in Ohio, sources said Monday, apparently to prevent defense
attorneys from using the inspector general report to undermine any
testimony by the employee.
Stephen Jones, counsel for Timothy McVeigh, who is charged in the
Oklahoma City case, has deposed Whitehurst and indicated he may
be called as a defense witness.
Nearly a year ago, Whitehurst was called to an interview by Special
Investigative Counsel Joseph C. Hutchison, who was brought here
from the Connecticut U.S. attorney's office to conduct the leak
investigation.
Hutchison wrote Whitehurst's lawyers that ``there is substantial
reason to believe that your client ... is responsible for the
unauthorized release of work-related information to Jeff Stein,'' a
freelance writer who produced an article intended for publication in
Playboy magazine.
At that time, Carl Stern, then Justice Department spokesman, said
Playboy wrote the department to check the article's facts, which
allowed officials to learn that the article would contain information
and allegations about FBI employees that are protected from public
release by the Privacy Act.
Stern said, ``There is no criminal investigation looking into the
conduct of Frederic Whitehurst. There's an administrative inquiry in
connection with the leak of Whitehurst's communications with the
department to a writer from Playboy magazine.''
===========================================================
E Pluribus Unum - http://home.megalinx.net/~eplurib/home.html
P.O. Box 477; Stockport, OH 43787
Voice (614) 836-7650 Fax (614) 836-7651
"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" Hosea 4:6
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-29 (Wed, 29 Jan 1997 10:56:18 -0800 (PST)) - FBI Suspends Lab Whistleblower - _Robalini@aol.com_

51
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-31 - [STEGO] Blowfish
## Header Data
From: nobody@zifi.genetics.utah.edu (Anonymous)<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 06d28dce208561ae34ff1da7ddcc940b41adb4cabfcdd7f053b9162e6d89a3cf<br>
Message ID: \<199701311646.JAA01101@zifi.genetics.utah.edu\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-31 16:46:52 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 08:46:52 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: nobody@zifi.genetics.utah.edu (Anonymous)
Date: Fri, 31 Jan 1997 08:46:52 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: [STEGO] Blowfish
Message-ID: <199701311646.JAA01101@zifi.genetics.utah.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Timmy C[rook] Maytag's abysmal grammar,
atrocious spelling and feeble responses clearly
identify him as a product of the American
education system.
/\ \ / /\
//\\ .. //\\ Timmy C[rook] Maytag
//\(( ))/\\
/ < `' > \
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-31 (Fri, 31 Jan 1997 08:46:52 -0800 (PST)) - [STEGO] Blowfish - _nobody@zifi.genetics.utah.edu (Anonymous)_

63
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-21 - Re: GSM technology
## Header Data
From: Asgaard \<asgaard@cor.sos.sll.se\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 06e6180d639230a4eb88c134fd93644e810db3e15ca792b711fdf42be5653930<br>
Message ID: \<Pine.HPP.3.91.970121004302.23370A-100000@cor.sos.sll.se\><br>
Reply To: \<199701201613.IAA12460@toad.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-21 00:06:49 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:06:49 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Asgaard <asgaard@cor.sos.sll.se>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:06:49 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: GSM technology
In-Reply-To: <199701201613.IAA12460@toad.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.91.970121004302.23370A-100000@cor.sos.sll.se>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
On Fri, 17 Jan 1997, Adam Back wrote:
> into the data port. You can't fit the laptop and GSM phone
> combination into your shirt pocket. What are you going to use for a
With a reasonably sized shirt pocket you can fit a Nokia 9000
Communicator into it: a combination of GSM phone and 386 computer,
with 6 MB storage (OS and default applications use 4 of those)
and 2 MB RAM. It runs fax, SMS (Short Messages Services), a Terminal,
SMTP, IMAP4, MIME1, WWW and telnet. The operative system is GEOS
(tm) 3.0. I guess it's not very programmable though (and there is
no PGPhone implementation for GEOS) and data speed is only 9600 bps.
And there is probably no connection between the mic/speaker and
the computer.
But it's only 173 x 64 x 38 mm, and perhaps the next generation of such
devices might be interesting for reengineering into secure end-to-end
crypto phenes?
Asgaard
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-20 (Mon, 20 Jan 1997 08:13:59 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: GSM technology](/archive/1997/01/e89998d3b5800128c299850970b673ed7c03196fd36371b46b17970cbf279306) - _Adam Back \<aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk\>_
+ 1997-01-21 (Mon, 20 Jan 1997 16:06:49 -0800 (PST)) - Re: GSM technology - _Asgaard \<asgaard@cor.sos.sll.se\>_

118
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-29 - Crypto verification needed for Pretty Safe Mail
## Header Data
From: Anonymous \<nobody@replay.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 06ea1bc64256c28b3b01d131d9b50415bb7e1f9608c17e61e9565ebb731c7950<br>
Message ID: \<199701290300.TAA15110@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-29 03:00:19 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 19:00:19 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Anonymous <nobody@replay.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 19:00:19 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Crypto verification needed for Pretty Safe Mail
Message-ID: <199701290300.TAA15110@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
There have been questions raised on the newsgroups regarding
Pretty Safe Mail, arguably the best implementation of a PGP product
for the Macintosh.
In response, the product manager at Highware has requested that
a trusted third party verify the security of Pretty Safe Mail. However,
a NON-U.S. cryptologer is needed.
I'm including the post below. Please forward to any people you know
who may qualify.
Pretty Safe Mail is a GREAT product. If it can be shown to be safe
and effective, it will do wonders to spread the use of strong crypto.
=====
From: axel@highware.com (Axel de Landtsheer)
Newsgroups: comp.security.pgp.discuss
Subject: Re: Concerned about Pretty Safe Mail for Mac
> I'm concerned about the product "Pretty Safe Mail" for the Macintosh,
>by a company called Highware. I was wondering whether anyone here had
>tried evaluating it at all.
>
> It is a complete PGP implementation (not a front-end). They claim
>to have licensed some of PRZ's code from PGP. However, as far as I
>can tell, they are not making any of the source code available.
The source code for PSM is indeed not available. We are however eager to
have the code checked by any trusted source. These sources cannot be US
companies because of the new US regulations which state that US companies
must not give such support to overseas companies. Us being a Belgian
company, this makes things a little more difficult. Does anybody have a
suggestion for such a trusted source outside the US?
> As someone on the comp.security.pgp newsgroups pointed out, writing
>a wonderful user interface on a PGP trojan horse that either crippled
>the session key generator or used the session key to leak random
>portions of secret key primes would be a perfect tactic for a
>government wishing to penetrate PGP security. With such a great
>interface, compared to the original PGP, it can't help but become
>widely used.
PSM is not a Trojan Horse. Does any trusted source want to check that?
> I realize that without the source code, it's a major hassle, but
>has anyone looked at Pretty Safe Mail (previously called Safemail)
>at all for suspicious behavior? For example:
>
> 1) non-random session key generation?
> 2) non-random key pair generation?
> 3) unnecessary disk access to secret keys?
> 4) anything else?
Many people are worried about the random-key generation because they do not
need to bang away on the keyboard for five minutes when they create a key
pair. Apparently, this seems to loosen their nerves (I heard some people
created about 10 key pairs a day - just a joke).
In short, we use all events that happen on the Mac (clicks, typing, opening
of windows, display of icons, ...) together with the time they happen, and
encrypt these to fill a table which is the starting point for the
random-number generator. Why make people type away on the keyboard if you
have enough random events to start from?
Again, we want to have this checked by a trusted source asap...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Axel de Landtsheer | Highware, Inc.
| 109 av. H. Jaspar, 1060 Brussels, Belgium
Product Manager | voice: +32 2 537-6810 fax: +32 2 537-5155
axel@highware.com | http://www.highware.com, ftp://ftp.highware.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To obtain my PGP key, send me a message with subject "Send PGP key"
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-29 (Tue, 28 Jan 1997 19:00:19 -0800 (PST)) - Crypto verification needed for Pretty Safe Mail - _Anonymous \<nobody@replay.com\>_

61
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-21 - Hard Drive Encryption
## Header Data
From: FrozenHell \<fhell@nether.net\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0710f35827abdff65caff8bbf6f4218b3539f87b5a794d693bda9ff4105014d5<br>
Message ID: \<3.0.16.19970120192722.37ef8cbc@mail.nether.net\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-21 05:42:00 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:42:00 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: FrozenHell <fhell@nether.net>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:42:00 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Hard Drive Encryption
Message-ID: <3.0.16.19970120192722.37ef8cbc@mail.nether.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
I found a program on the internet called POTASSIUM HYDROXIDE that says it
will encrypt your hard drive... then when ever you turn on your computer it
will request a password before it even accesses your DOS. If you put in the
right password it will load as a TSR that will let your access your
encrypted hard drive.
But I have a Western Digital Caviar Hard Drive and have the use the W.D.
Disk Manager v6.03d that comes with it... this is another program that
loads before your DOS... does anyone know if this program Potassium
Hydroxide will work with W.D. Disk Manager and work under Win 3.11/95. I
don't want to risk gibbling all the info on my hard drive.
If not does anyone know of a program that will let me encrypt my hard disk
and decrypt it will a password before my DOS is loaded and work with the
above programs of mine.
If it helps I am using DOS 6.21 with Windows 3.11 ( I'm upgrading to `95
soon ;> )
-FrozenHell (fhell@nether.net)
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-21 (Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:42:00 -0800 (PST)) - Hard Drive Encryption - _FrozenHell \<fhell@nether.net\>_

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# 1997-01-03 - Re: OCR and Machine Readable Text
## Header Data
From: Hal Finney \<hal@rain.org\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 071871fe1710cc8192d902f4812fe65eff00c0163de0fbdf87099e6b6285a209<br>
Message ID: \<199701031704.JAA08887@crypt.hfinney.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-03 17:06:04 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:06:04 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Hal Finney <hal@rain.org>
Date: Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:06:04 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: OCR and Machine Readable Text
Message-ID: <199701031704.JAA08887@crypt.hfinney.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Before you get too carried away by the capabilities of off the shelf
character recognition, read Phil Karn's experience trying to produce
a working DES program from the pages of Applied Cryptography. It was
easier than writing it himself, but it was still far from a turnkey
operation. This is from <URL:
http://www.qualcomm.com/people/pkarn/export/karndecl.html >
> 5. I began by first photocopying, on a standard office photocopier, the
> 18 pages containing the Triple DES source code listing from Part V of
> the Book. This took about 5 minutes. Second, I scanned in the 18 sheets
> on a Macintosh Quadra 610 computer system equipped with an HP ScanJet II
> flatbed scanner and Omnipage Professional optical character recognition
> (OCR) software. The computer, scanner, and software are all readily
> available through normal consumer computer supply channels. The total
> scanning process took about one and a half hours. About an hour of this
> time was spent learning to use the scanning system and conducting trial
> runs, as I had only used it briefly some time ago. The actual scan of the
> 18 pages took about 15-20 minutes. Third, I transferred the resulting
> machine-readable file from the Macintosh to my own personal computer
> and brought it up under GNU EMACS, a popular and widely available text
> editing program that I have used for many years. In EMACS I compared,
> by eye, the scanned file displayed on my screen against the printed
> listing in the Book. I began correcting the scanner's many errors, such
> as mistaking the digit '0' for the letter 'O' or mistaking the vertical
> bar '|' for the letter 'I'.
>
> 6. After manually correcting those errors noticed through visual
> comparison with the Book, I invoked the "C" language compiler on the
> (partially) corrected file. The compiler immediately pointed out
> additional errors I had overlooked in my visual inspection so I could
> also correct them by reference to the Book. I also noticed several errors
> in the listing printed in the Book. However, the programmer's intentions
> were obvious from the context of each error and were easily fixed. About
> fifty minutes later, I successfully compiled the file without error.
>
> 7. The fourth step was to write a small test program to execute
> the DES code with the test vectors given at the end of the source
> code listing. This trivial program took less than 5 minutes to
> write. Unfortunately, the test did not succeed, meaning that at
> least one error went undetected by the compiler in either the code as
> printed in the Book or as scanned. Scrutinizing the code more closely,
> I quickly found another error in the printed version that was easily
> corrected. However, it still did not produce correct results. After about
> an hour of searching, I finally located the error in a list of numbers
> in a table -- another error in the printed version. By reference to the
> DES algorithm description in the first part of the Book, which includes
> the correct numbers in tabular form, I found and corrected the error.
>
> 8. At this point the test finally succeeded, so I knew I had a correct
> program. However, to increase my confidence further I tried a few
> other DES test vectors that were not included in the source code, but
> were openly published by the US National Institute of Standards and
> Technology (NIST). All passed. At this point it was beyond doubt that I
> had a correct, working copy of the DES source code identical to that on
> the Disk with all errors removed, including those printed in the Book
> as well as those added by the scanning process.
>
> 9. Finally, in about 40 minutes I wrote and debugged a "driver" program
> analogous to that included in the Crowell declaration. This driver program
> takes a sample plaintext file, encrypts it, displays the encrypted file
> in hexadecimal and then decrypts it.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-03 (Fri, 3 Jan 1997 09:06:04 -0800 (PST)) - Re: OCR and Machine Readable Text - _Hal Finney \<hal@rain.org\>_

69
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# 1997-01-21 - Re: "Technical data" exemptions in new crypto regs
## Header Data
From: Sean Roach \<roach_s@alph.swosu.edu\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 071a7d789918986f5785adf0b8b1be8a5433027400155ce494bc72c43a8e5d49<br>
Message ID: \<199701212341.PAA13998@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-21 23:41:32 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:41:32 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Sean Roach <roach_s@alph.swosu.edu>
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:41:32 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: "Technical data" exemptions in new crypto regs
Message-ID: <199701212341.PAA13998@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 04:17 AM 1/21/97 -0500, Richard L. Field wrote:
...
> I read the new regs as permitting: (i) publication of source code in
>paper form (including publications reproduced on microfilm or on prerecorded
>phonograph records), or in the form of a motion picture film and soundtrack
>(section 734.3(b)(2)); and, separately, (ii) teaching or discussion of
>information "about" cryptography (section 744.9). The export of other
>encryption materials (including the distribution to non-US persons of source
>or object code on diskettes) is restricted, even if the materials are
>publicly available "educational information" for release by instruction in
>catalog courses and associated teaching laboratories of academic
>institutions (section 734.9).
...
This has often reminded me of something that occurred around 1776.
I can't remember if it was before or after.
Remember how the colonies got sophisticated spinning gear?
I believe it was spinning gear.
Great Britain had a ban on the export of functional models, diagrams or
manufacturing instructions to one particular class of equipment. This was
so that they could maintain the monopoly on cheaply made cloth, holding the
outlying colonies in line by maintaining a dependancy.
One man memorized the structure of one of these machines and then came to
the American shores, where he reproduced it workably.
I can't remember the name of the man or the machine, just that it was used
in the manufacture of cloth, the "spinning jenny" i think. Nor can I
remember the date.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-21 (Tue, 21 Jan 1997 15:41:32 -0800 (PST)) - Re: "Technical data" exemptions in new crypto regs - _Sean Roach \<roach_s@alph.swosu.edu\>_

67
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-10 - 2300 Headhunters Searching for YOU
## Header Data
From: success@joblynx.com<br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 0723f97f2199d4f4852e71125c089dfd63c658d4f76ea6c40e516567dcdd6f4c<br>
Message ID: \<199701101418.IAA05836@admin.itol.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-10 14:24:57 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 06:24:57 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: success@joblynx.com
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 1997 06:24:57 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: 2300 Headhunters Searching for YOU
Message-ID: <199701101418.IAA05836@admin.itol.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
I_Love_SPAM,
Business people of the '90's are in demand more than ever.
Their jobs are at risk more than ever also. We feel that
a person with your qualifications would benefit from
the services of our 2300 Professional Recruiters.
Your resume can be registered on the Internet at our award
winning web site http://joblynx.com where our headhunters are
searching for qualified job candidates Nationwide.
Complete confidentiality is assured and we place thousands
of professionals each month.
Register today to begin benefitting from the Hidden Job
Market.
Best wishes.
Sincerely,
Andrea Hoover
President of JobLynx
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-10 (Fri, 10 Jan 1997 06:24:57 -0800 (PST)) - 2300 Headhunters Searching for YOU - _success@joblynx.com_

53
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-21 - Re: Quantum computers/Java of a different sort
## Header Data
From: Mike McNally \<m5@vail.tivoli.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 07401966db59ab0aa625964ebf2c12d3d35166581ad04944ed004c9eb9b0df32<br>
Message ID: \<32E4B968.28DA@vail.tivoli.com\><br>
Reply To: \<199701202143.NAA19177@toad.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-21 12:41:27 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 04:41:27 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Mike McNally <m5@vail.tivoli.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 04:41:27 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Quantum computers/Java of a different sort
In-Reply-To: <199701202143.NAA19177@toad.com>
Message-ID: <32E4B968.28DA@vail.tivoli.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Mike McNally poorly edited a forwarded note:
> ... junk ...
Sorry.
--
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
Mike McNally -- Egregiously Pointy -- Tivoli Systems, "IBM" -- Austin
mailto:m5@tivoli.com mailto:m101@io.com http://www.io.com/~m101
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-20 (Mon, 20 Jan 1997 13:43:12 -0800 (PST)) - [Quantum computers/Java of a different sort](/archive/1997/01/e6d5d1de1214381dfa5424c3669bf9d0fdcf835a444668ea64d815d08688309d) - _Mike McNally \<m5@vail.tivoli.com\>_
+ 1997-01-21 (Tue, 21 Jan 1997 04:41:27 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Quantum computers/Java of a different sort - _Mike McNally \<m5@vail.tivoli.com\>_

84
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---
layout: default
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# 1997-01-28 - RE: Fighting the cybercensor
## Header Data
From: Sean Roach \<roach_s@alph.swosu.edu\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 075283049cda45345b9deefc7ba1c2f3fa597a1600c0825b501e12e2e2a37baf<br>
Message ID: \<199701282116.NAA02586@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-28 21:16:13 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:16:13 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Sean Roach <roach_s@alph.swosu.edu>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:16:13 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: RE: Fighting the cybercensor
Message-ID: <199701282116.NAA02586@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 10:47 PM 1/27/97 -0800, jim bell wrote:
...
>You misunderstand AP, yet again. AP doesn't really take votes, it merely
>totals donations. It is an essential element of the AP system that even a
>tiny minority should be able to kill individuals who are seen as threats, as
>long as this capability is universal. True, the smaller the minority the
>more uneconomical such an action would be for them, but it would be well
>within the ability of 1% of the population to avoid a another Holocaust by
>getting rid of those pushing for it.
>
>In the current political system, in the US for instance, 51% of the
>population is able to screw the remaining 49%, just as long as they can
>maintain the majority. Or, perhaps even more accurately and ominously, a
>tiny fraction of the population (the current leadership class) is able to
>screw the 49%, as long as they have the un-thinking backing of the remaining
>and relatively uninvolved 51%.
>
>AP disables this system. AP turns government into the moral equivalent of a
>pick-up football game: Nobody is being forced to play, and everybody and
>anybody can simply "get up and leave" whenever he wants to. The moment the
>"rules of the game" to make an individual's continued participation
>unsatisfying, he can leave.
>
...
In our society, which, if I remember correctly, 10% of the population
control 90% of the wealth, AP would only lead to 10% of the population being
able to screw the remaining 90%. At least as it is, it takes a simple majority.
As for the murder of the rich, here is a scenerio.
A collection of poor pool their capitol to have a tyrant killed.
The tyrant assembles a counter-wager saying that anyone able to prove thier
ability to kill him without harming him, and who can show they got through
will get 110% of the poor's bid.
The household is told that a standing bounty has been placed with a
collection of individuals, on the head of the trigger man involved in the
tyrants murder.
The poor can not hope to match the tyrants bid as they only have 10% of the
wealth, the household knows that thier participation in an attempt on the
tyrant will get them killed. Even if the attempt was successful.
The people from the outside who would benefit from the bounty benefit more
by taking the tyrants offer and then trying again, i.e. tiger teams.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-28 (Tue, 28 Jan 1997 13:16:13 -0800 (PST)) - RE: Fighting the cybercensor - _Sean Roach \<roach_s@alph.swosu.edu\>_

79
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layout: default
---
# 1997-01-25 - Re: Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd)
## Header Data
From: Jim Choate \<ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 076d876dffb66cdd8668d79590d6d93f58188d3beda0b6521c5f79ea0d6619ac<br>
Message ID: \<199701252210.OAA03633@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-25 22:10:57 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:10:57 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Jim Choate <ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com>
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:10:57 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd)
Message-ID: <199701252210.OAA03633@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Forwarded message:
> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 10:19:20 -0800
> From: Dale Thorn <dthorn@gte.net>
> Subject: Re: Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd)
> Precedence: bulk
>
> Bill Stewart wrote:
> > At 07:38 PM 1/23/97 -0600, Jim Choate wrote:
I most certainly did NOT...
> > One of the points of the Ebonics program is to recognize that
> > other people don't always speak the same way you do, and that
> > if you want to communicate with them, you'll be more successful
> > if you realize it, understand when they're talking in their dialect,
>
> I could agree with "some of the points" of the Ebonics program were
> it not for the fact of the hidden points. Unbeknownst to most folks,
> supporting a program on any erstwhile points will give support to the
> program on *all* points.
Looks like Bessie could use a refresher course in:
* Getting their sources correct
* Using their mail/editing package
* Basic rules of courtesy
Folks, if you can't get it straight, keep your damn editor buffers empty.
Jim Choate
CyberTects
ravage@ssz.com
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-25 (Sat, 25 Jan 1997 14:10:57 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Fighting the cybercensor. (fwd) - _Jim Choate \<ravage@EINSTEIN.ssz.com\>_

59
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-08 - Re: [STATS] Cypherpunks subscriptions on and off
## Header Data
From: Dave Hayes \<dave@kachina.jetcafe.org\><br>
To: unicorn@schloss.li<br>
Message Hash: 077d6344d2a3e240e10964c47b8c9c5e303d2f781c28b619538f944f2a0eb67e<br>
Message ID: \<199701082237.OAA02999@kachina.jetcafe.org\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-08 22:37:21 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:37:21 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Dave Hayes <dave@kachina.jetcafe.org>
Date: Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:37:21 -0800 (PST)
To: unicorn@schloss.li
Subject: Re: [STATS] Cypherpunks subscriptions on and off
Message-ID: <199701082237.OAA02999@kachina.jetcafe.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Black Unicorn writes:
> More fear from Mr. Thorn that his own time in the spotlight might be
> drawing to a close. God forbid his captive audience might vanish.
Tell me, how can an audience be captive when they control the "delete"
key?
------
Dave Hayes - Altadena CA, USA - dave@jetcafe.org
Freedom Knight of Usenet - http://www.jetcafe.org/~dave/usenet
A voice whispered to me last night. It said: "There is no such thing
as a voice whispering in the night!"
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-08 (Wed, 8 Jan 1997 14:37:21 -0800 (PST)) - Re: [STATS] Cypherpunks subscriptions on and off - _Dave Hayes \<dave@kachina.jetcafe.org\>_
+ 1997-01-09 (Wed, 8 Jan 1997 17:46:05 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: [STATS] Cypherpunks subscriptions on and off](/archive/1997/01/f68044e18182d78055291fb28af71608667d150fc1a6333934dcc4604d2a8b82) - _dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)_
+ 1997-01-09 (Thu, 9 Jan 1997 04:25:05 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: [STATS] Cypherpunks subscriptions on and off](/archive/1997/01/490623d68c099cf180dec6351f785d7737ffcf88a5e3d843d4c614c9bc388be7) - _Stephen Boursy \<boursy@earthlink.net\>_
+ 1997-01-09 (Thu, 9 Jan 1997 11:49:26 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: [STATS] Cypherpunks subscriptions on and off](/archive/1997/01/e8bf874be35dc198ad778fa89c36e0e57b891df3e7f5142f27d23f302117bcdf) - _"Z.B." \<zachb@netcom.com\>_
+ 1997-01-09 (Thu, 9 Jan 1997 15:20:12 -0800 (PST)) - [Re: [STATS] Cypherpunks subscriptions on and off](/archive/1997/01/fa440d2cdab3bcac1fcacbab61ae4f8e9de6b080a834408305d2d0854803b51d) - _"William H. Geiger III" \<whgiii@amaranth.com\>_

47
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---
layout: default
---
# 1997-01-30 - Re: [CRYPTO] ElGamal
## Header Data
From: Secret Squirrel \<nobody@squirrel.owl.de\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 07b197f17a7d7b2f7857dd02fb83bfc6fb127d1aad319f3e2ad416deb99bc869<br>
Message ID: \<19970130214809.27595.qmail@squirrel.owl.de\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-30 22:02:17 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 14:02:17 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Secret Squirrel <nobody@squirrel.owl.de>
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 14:02:17 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: [CRYPTO] ElGamal
Message-ID: <19970130214809.27595.qmail@squirrel.owl.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Here, Dimwit Vandal K[arcass] Of The Moment descends into total
inanity. He should have a cold shower and/or a Turkish coffee.
^-^-^-@@-^-^-^
(..) Dimwit Vandal K[arcass] Of The Moment
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-30 (Thu, 30 Jan 1997 14:02:17 -0800 (PST)) - Re: [CRYPTO] ElGamal - _Secret Squirrel \<nobody@squirrel.owl.de\>_

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# 1997-01-27 - Sharon / Re: Scott's Legal Problems
## Header Data
From: Toto \<toto@sk.sympatico.ca\><br>
To: User357419@aol.com<br>
Message Hash: 07c626b7e65abcdb72ac46662c470aa9f79ebf7c84015ee14d18bb05f1db3210<br>
Message ID: \<32EC93AF.DB8@sk.sympatico.ca\><br>
Reply To: \<970126164357_1446227788@emout17.mail.aol.com\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-27 09:37:06 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 01:37:06 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Toto <toto@sk.sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 01:37:06 -0800 (PST)
To: User357419@aol.com
Subject: Sharon / Re: Scott's Legal Problems
In-Reply-To: <970126164357_1446227788@emout17.mail.aol.com>
Message-ID: <32EC93AF.DB8@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Sharon,
While I don't have a lot of details regarding Scott's personal
history, as such, I have a lifetime of experience with TS, the medical
system, and the legal system, as well.
I spent more than a little time in court and at seminars, as a
counsellor, addressing the issues of physical and mental disabilities
and the resulting behavior patterns that are engendered by them. I have
found that both judges and prosecutors inherently understand the issues
themselves, but that defendants rarely have anyone able to effectively
speak for them in regard to these issues.
The fact of the matter is, the legal system is geared toward
'punishment' as a means of impressing upon people that they need to
modify their behavior in order to act within the boundaries required by
society. In order for people with special needs to be afforded an
opportunity to meet society's requirements, there is an onus upon them
to be able to show reasonable cause to the judge as to why a 'generic'
solution to the problem they present to society is neither feasible, nor
just.
As a result of being afflicted with Tourette Syndrome, your son has
problems that I am very familiar with, since I have had to deal with the
results of the affliction myself for almost a half-century, without
proper diagnosis. So I will endeavor to explain some of the
life-experiences that I have been through, personally, as a result of
this disease's influence on my life.
The fact is, I was unjustly charged and convicted of a minor drug
offense at the age of 19, for the simple reason that I was 'different'
from the other 'suspects', and thus was more suspicious. I was fortunate
enough to recognize that I was, indeed, different from others, and that
this would be something that would affect my life greatly in the future.
The result was that I made an effort to fully understand the intricacies
of the law and to take actions to protect myself in the future, no
matter whether my actions were in line with societies dictates, or
beyond the acceptable boundaries of society.
When you are 'different', then you are subject to a much closer
scrutiny than the rest of society, and to a much harsher punishment, as
a rule. I have spent hours on end at the border crossing near my
hometown while customs officials called down the drug dogs from the big
city, because I couldn't explain to them why I was 'twitching'. I have
spent many days in jail waiting to answer to charges that would later be
dismissed because there was no substance to them. I have been subjected
to personal debasement and humiliating libel because of various
authorities deeming that the manifestations of my disability were signs
of my lack of morality, or of evil intentions on my part.
You say your son has problems over possessing pills that a friend gave
him to try in order to help his TS?
My father and mother have given me, over the years, various of their
medications to try in order to see if it would help me. They did so
because, for all of their care and concern, helping me as much as
possible within the 'proper boundaries' of medical science, I was not
getting what I needed in order to become a functional human being.
My father and mother are respected business people and leading members
of the community. They never had to fear getting 'busted' for stepping
outside the bounds of society--but I did.
I found a drug, amphetamine, that helped me to become a functional
member of society, but I was subject to arrest and imprisonment if I got
caught possessing it. After over three decades of occasional 'illegal'
use of the drug, it is now prescribed for my by a doctor who is allowed
to do so because it is now a 'recognized' treatment for TS. But, from a
legal standpoint, I was supposed to forego use of the drug and lead a
more dysfunctional life.
DWI's? The most functional period of my life was spent self-medicating
with alcohol and nicotine. I acted as president of a small computer
company while smoking a carton
of cigarettes a day and drinking a case (24) of beer a day. It made me
functional.
I put on 30-50,000 miles a year, accident free, and there were times
that I would not drive if I didn't have my 'medicine/beer' because I
didn't feel it was safe to do so. I had the foresight to buy my own
breathalyzer so that I could guage my drinking according to the legal
standard, but I did so only for legal reasons, not for reasons of
safety.
Public intoxication? I was recently 'forced' to show up in court in a
state of legally defined 'public intoxication' in order not to be locked
in a cage like an animal as a result of my disabilities.
I missed a court appearance because the prescribed medications I was
taking could not get me onto the 'day schedule' required by the legal
system. Under threat of imprisonment for failing to show up at the next
court date, I spent the previous night imbibing my 'old faithful'
medication, Scotch. I had a friend drive me to court, and I drank Scotch
and Coke while pleading my case (which I won).
I had no desire to 'break the law'. I did not have an 'attitude
problem'. I was not trying to 'flaunt the rules of society'. I was
trying to survive. I was trying to keep from being locked in a cage for
not being able to function according to society's wishes without
performing actions which also went against society's wishes, but which
would enable me to avoid 'punishment', nonetheless.
I take it that Scott is 'hiding out' to avoid being locked in a cage
for violating the rules of society.
I have spent a great deal of my life 'hiding out' so that I would not
have to come into contact with society and be punished for trying to
survive while not fitting into the common mold.
There have been times when I was forced to 'hide out' from showing up
in court to answer this-or-that charge which I knew would be dismissed
if I could hold out until I was functional enough to deal with the
situation. I had the foresight and the knowledge to do so using the same
'techniques' as a lawyer who isn't ready to plead a case because he
stayed up too late drinking the night before. I 'fudged' the truth, as
lawyers do every day, but I did so in order to compensate for a
dysfunctionality which was very real, but undiagnosed and therefore
unrecognized by the legal system.
I have been blessed enough in life to have 'escaped' many situations
which could have turned out badly for me, by virtue of learning at a
young age that I needed to institute my own methods of dealing with a
dysfunctionality which I recognized, but which, in many ways, remained a
mystery to me.
I have also been blessed by having the extreme good fortune to have
encountered a number of judges and prosecutors who were truly concerned
about justice, and who had the ability to judge me as a human being, and
take into account the fact that I was being honest with them about my
attitude, intentions and circumstances, even when my outward actions or
appearance did not correspond to what they were used to seeing in
'normal' people.
And I have been blessed to be able to make a difference in the lives
of others by pleading their case to those in authority over them, when
they were unable to effectively do so themselves. During my years as a
consellor and court-appointed advisor, I was only vaguely aware that I
understood the circumstances of the people I was helping to defend
because I shared their disabilities and their dysfunctionality.
In regard to Scott, I don't know him personally, but the trials and
tribulations that you have shared on the pov-twitch forum are not
foreign to me, as they mirror my own life in many ways.
What I would say to a judge and a prosecutor who are charged with the
duty of protecting both society and the individual, is this:
1. Please have the compassion and the wisdom to take a close look at
Scott as a human being, and seriously consider what special
circumstances may be raised by the fact that he is afflicted with a
medical condition that affects his life in ways that he has little
control over.
2. Try to make a distinction between actions, behaviors and attitudes
that are a result of a 'bad attitude' or a 'criminal intent', and the
actions, behaviors and attitudes of an individual who is trying
desperately to survive in a world in which he is ill-equipped to
function as a result of his disabilities.
3. Please make an attempt to review his past history of involvement
with the legal system with an eye toward recognizing that perhaps the
judgements made about him, and the resulting legal decisions regarding
the disposition of his cases, did not fully take into account his
physical and mental disabilities and thus did not reflect the best
course of resolution of his case for the greatest benefit of both
society and the individual himself. (The Tourette-support forums
regularly contain postings by loving and concerned parents who are
horrified by the mistaken judgements--and resulting punishments-they
made concerning their children before they came to realize that their
child had physical and mental disabilities which required them to view
his or her actions in a new light, and find unique solutions for the
problems that these disabilities presented.)
4. Keep in mind the fact that resistance to authority and the tendency
to 'flee' from the face of society are common traits among many who
suffer from Tourette Syndrome and its accompanying afflictions. (I
posted a message to pov-twitch in which I spoke of feeling like a
"hunted animal" for much of my life, and I received a huge outpouring of
responses from TS-adults which reflected the pain and fear that they
still carried inside of themselves as a result of a lifetime of
persecution for the 'small sin' of being different from those around
them.)
5. Please realize that you are judging an individual, whose future lies
in your hands, who has a genuine need for special understanding in order
to bring his case to a resolution which will benefit society and the
individual himself.
It is easy to recognize the special circumstances and needs necessary
to dispense true justice in the case of the 'obviously' and the
'acceptably' disabled. When one is confronted with a retarded
individual, or a person in a wheel-chair, the special circumstances
regarding the disposition of their case are obvious. When judging a
person who is rambling on disjointedly about the voices in his or her
head, and truly hears them, then the need to take this into
consideration is equally obvious.
It is much more difficult to put Tourette Syndrome-type behaviors and
attitudes into proper perspective, and to judge the part they play in an
individuals actions and behaviors. TS traits encompass ADHD and OCD
(Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder), and a variety of 'borderline'
dysfunctionalities which result in actions and behaviors which are easy
to classify as 'willful', 'disrespectful', etc. (Children who won't sit
still in their chairs; who utter obscenities; who perform impulsive
actions based on irrational, illogical thought processes.)
I recognize that there are certain instances in which society's
interest is best served by locking up an individual so that they do not
do irrepairable harm to others, but if this concept is extended to the
point where it becomes the preferred method of dealing with
psychological disabilities, out of convenience, then I feel that justice
is no longer being served.
Society, in return for abridging the rights of an individual to act in
any manner that he or she pleases, also takes on the responsibility to
ensure that the individual will not unduly suffer as a result of the
dictates of society.
If society chooses to judge Scott for stepping outside the boundaries
of its rule of law, then society must ensure that Scott is afforded the
opportunity to gain the medical assistance that he needs in order to
deal with his disabilities within the bounds of society's laws.
Imprisonment is hardly likely to be a solution that will result in
changes to Scott's medical disabilities. If the legal system is not able
to propose an alternative to imprisonment, then what hope is there,
really, for anyone who is engaged in a daily battle to overcome the
trials, tribulations and stigmatism associated with the affliction of
Tourette Syndrome.
I wish you and Scott all the best in dealing with his present
situation, and I hope that you are blessed with a judge who understands
that society is composed of individuals and that, in judging the
individual, he or she is judging society itself.
Love,
Toto
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-27 (Mon, 27 Jan 1997 01:37:06 -0800 (PST)) - Sharon / Re: Scott's Legal Problems - _Toto \<toto@sk.sympatico.ca\>_

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# 1997-01-19 - Cheap CyberShots
## Header Data
From: Toto \<toto@sk.sympatico.ca\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 08003746b37a394cf302b3a291750fcdc0ec66ef97599bdb330eb8ae0e720449<br>
Message ID: \<32E17314.3640@sk.sympatico.ca\><br>
Reply To: \<199701181645.SAA17382@vesuri.Helsinki.FI\><br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-19 00:25:50 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:25:50 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Toto <toto@sk.sympatico.ca>
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:25:50 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Cheap CyberShots
In-Reply-To: <199701181645.SAA17382@vesuri.Helsinki.FI>
Message-ID: <32E17314.3640@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
In the interests of upgrading the quality of cheap shots in
CyberSpace, I thought I would pass along the following as an
example of how to 'finesse' a cheap shot.
> Shouting Ground Technologies, Inc. is concerned about the increased
> abuse of the internet with "spamming". In this instance, we find
> ourselves in a dilemma.
> * We do not condone any improper use of the internet, including
> spamming.
> * We respect the right of privacy of individuals, and the right
> to conduct lawful business unhindered.
...
> In the past few days we've received a lot of complaints about the
> inappropriate messages. Several people have demanded that we take
> immediate action. A couple were very critical that we did not
> cut their internet access immediately.
...
> So people are in effect suggesting that we
> * Unilaterally violate the terms of their service contract, subjecting
> us to liability for their lost business.
> * Violate their right to privacy by filtering and reading all of
> their e-mail and news traffic.
> Presumably we would have the same culpability for all of our clients,
> so we'd have to read everybody's e-mail before passing it on. We
> suspect that anybody that wants to be treated that way already
> has service with Prodigy.
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-19 (Sat, 18 Jan 1997 16:25:50 -0800 (PST)) - Cheap CyberShots - _Toto \<toto@sk.sympatico.ca\>_

57
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layout: default
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# 1997-01-26 - Re: Cellular location...
## Header Data
From: Three Blind Mice \<3bmice@nym.alias.net\><br>
To: cypherpunks@toad.com<br>
Message Hash: 080899023b5bd0a89edb1bfdd49fc6d1b3356f85879217e238befeb09c167faf<br>
Message ID: \<199701262326.PAA27174@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-26 23:26:07 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 15:26:07 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Three Blind Mice <3bmice@nym.alias.net>
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 15:26:07 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Cellular location...
Message-ID: <199701262326.PAA27174@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
On Sat, 25 Jan 1997, Mark M. wrote:
> I wonder how expensive it would be to put a GPS receiver in a cell phone and
> have the option to transmit the coordinates on a separate channel. There
> would be little difference between this and forcing cell phone companies to
> triangulate every call. The primary motivation for this is almost certainly
> "location escrow" to make it easier for the feds to track drug dealers.
Of course, one could always follow the ID4 example and triangulate cells
from a single location, preferably using equipment that any small-time
operator can find in his own car.
-- 3bmice
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-26 (Sun, 26 Jan 1997 15:26:07 -0800 (PST)) - Re: Cellular location... - _Three Blind Mice \<3bmice@nym.alias.net\>_

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# 1997-01-24 - Re: THE NEW YORKER on the V-Chip
## Header Data
From: Greg Broiles \<gbroiles@netbox.com\><br>
To: Alan Bostick \<abostick@netcom.com\><br>
Message Hash: 08189bb1cdf8c2be58dfde835a78740ff909cd2c492d417a665fa444795f6f21<br>
Message ID: \<199701241412.GAA25303@toad.com\><br>
Reply To: _N/A_<br>
UTC Datetime: 1997-01-24 14:12:34 UTC<br>
Raw Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 06:12:34 -0800 (PST)<br>
## Raw message
```
{% raw %}From: Greg Broiles <gbroiles@netbox.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 06:12:34 -0800 (PST)
To: Alan Bostick <abostick@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: THE NEW YORKER on the V-Chip
Message-ID: <199701241412.GAA25303@toad.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
At 04:57 PM 1/23/97 -0800, Alan Bostick wrote:
>In the Jan. 20, 1997, issue of THE NEW YORKER, the "Comment", written by
>Malcolm Gladwell, makes a powerful arguement about the unintended
>consequences of the V-Chip, the programmable device to be included in
>next-generation television sets sold in the US that supposedly will
>allow parents to control their children's access to sex and violence on
>TV.
While I think it's always useful to consider unintended (or otherwise
unexpected) consequences, Gladwell's argument sent a shiver down my spine
with its shameless paternalism. This bit (from roughly the middle of his
piece) is what I found creepiest:
"According to one recent study, somewhere between twenty and twenty-seven
per cent of the parents of four-to six-year-olds never restrict their
children's viewing hours, never decide what programs they can watch, never
change the channel when something objectionable comes on, and never forbid
the watching of certain programs. It has apparently never occurred to these
parents that television can be a bad influence, and it strains credulity to
think that the advent of the V-chip is going to wake them up. Yet their
families - mainly lower-income, ill-educated - are the very ones most in
need of protection from television violence. Here is a rearranging effect
with a vengeance: not only does the V-chip make television worse, it makes
television worse precisely for those already most vulnerable to its excesses."
I understood Gladwell's point to be, in essence, that the V-chip will allow
TV producers to generate higher levels of morally impure content which he
fears will pollute the minds of poor children because their parents are too
stupid to protect them from the harmful content and too poor to buy new
televisions which will include V-chips.
While I think 95% of broadcast TV is crap which isn't worth the time
expended watching it, even reading arguments like "poor people should be
protected from harmful ideas they're too stupid (or too poorly educated) to
avoid and too poor to purchase protection from" makes me feel dirty. I
don't think Gladwell is, in any meaningful way, an opponent of government
control of speech/expression - he's just an opponent of inefficient or
optional forms of government control of speech/expression. He's a
reasonable writer, but he's chosen to use his powers for evil instead of
for good. (Some of his work is available on the web; apparently he once
worked as a reporter for the Washington Post and is now on the staff of the
New Yorker.)
--
Greg Broiles | US crypto export control policy in a nutshell:
gbroiles@netbox.com |
http://www.io.com/~gbroiles | Export jobs, not crypto.
|
{% endraw %}
```
## Thread
+ Return to [January 1997](/archive/1997/01)
+ 1997-01-24 (Fri, 24 Jan 1997 06:12:34 -0800 (PST)) - Re: THE NEW YORKER on the V-Chip - _Greg Broiles \<gbroiles@netbox.com\>_

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